Hey that French piece of crap,fly by wire, break up in the middle of the air, phi phi jet. Would not be caught dead in one. If it ain't boeing I ain't going. You know how many times I have heard: "Well we were just flying along and all of a sudden the damn thing did ********!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't know what happened and still don't.:eek:

And half of your sims are spent on don't do this or holy *******!!!!!!!!!!!! Most of those guys flying the 330 are a little strange????????

Ok, so Compass 175s are permitted to be 89,000. Good, didn't want to have to start a poop storm.

Yes, and ONLY Compass are permitted to 89,000 lbs. It looked as if Shuttle America(ie-Republic/Chautauqua/Frontier/Midwest/Lynx) was going to mod their's as well, but it apparently never happened.......apparently. So if anyone is jumpseating up front in a Shuttle America E175 keep your eyes peeled.:cool:

Sweet! Another guy senior to me who is scared of the Airbus.:cool:

Thanks keenster!:p

Johnso29: 1). I’ve heard good things as well regarding the N&S getting along.
2). I hate to give credit to RA and the boys, but so far he is the best CEO we have had since Dave Garret.
3). I think you are correct about the shedding of regional partners. I too see a reverse trend. Just as an example of how management operated in the past: A few contracts ago, management wanted to buy a bunch of RJ’s for one of our connection carriers (ASA). We told them instead of buying them for those guys, we want to fly them. We were told that they couldn’t do it because the pilot hourly rate cost too much. Our rate was actually several dollars lower than theirs, but they ignored our request anyway. I think RA at least listens to us which is a good thing.
4). The white aircraft were fairly short lived. There is also a reply with some expanding info here somewhere. Here is another possible future problem which in the past would have been inevitable. Maybe with RA, it won’t happen. DAL has purchased several 88 seat aircraft but has blocked out the extra seats due to scope. I do not know how many more are going to be purchased. Past management during the next contract negotiations would have been crying that these aircraft are capable of carrying 88 to 90 pax and carrying only 76 pax is very inefficient. Since we already have them on the property, we need the scope clause changed, and in return we will give you $.10 per hour.
5). As I recall, the cap on the DCI is now based on main line flight hours, and not a real cap per say. The reason the 50 seaters are not being replaced one for one is because of the downturn in the economy and reduced loads. If the economy were booming, I think we would be seeing a different picture there as well.
6). No you have not come across as a young punk, self entitlement FO at all. I enjoy your posts, and look forward to the conversation. I’m not all that senior, just old. Ha
7). Yes, I think we agree that the N&S both have had enough concessions to last a lifetime. At the risk of sounding like a complete militant, I’ve only voted yes to one proposal which ALPA has put in front of us, and I am sorry to say even this was a mistake. When we had the early retirement wave, we were short on 777 Captains. The company asked if the retired guys could fly them until we got enough guys trained, otherwise they would be forced to park the 777’s. Before it happened, they knew there would be lots of guys bailing out, but they trained no one in preparation for it. A year went by with the PRP guys flying the 777’s. Instead of ramping up 777 training, they trained less than a handful of guys. So ALPA granted them a huge extension without a vote. The moral of that story is: Be careful what you vote for, you may not like the results. Ha

I'd say 4) could be a definite possibility. Brian Bedford of RAH bought E190's with 100 seats. He had his MX guys MEL the 100th seat because the current max FO pay ($37/hr) is good for up to 99 seats. It can happen. However, I feel confident with the new NC and think they will draw a hard line with scope. And not just with RJ's, but JV's and Codeshares as well. We have to be careful what we vote Yes for, just as you have said. Reading the entire TA, and asking questions is critical to improving/preserving our careers.

In regards to 5) you are correct. DCI will only receive more 76 seaters if Mainline grows above a certain number. But, with the current fleet plan I'm not sure that will happen anytime soon. We are already below the number which allows 153 76 seaters, and as you stated we have some DC9's being parked. Taking more MD90's may result in a net loss of 0 airframes, so if anything we will still be farther away from more large RJ's.

The part of the LOA that I don't like is the clause which states 'Once the number of Large RJ's has increased, it will NOT be DECREASED!' So basically, it's cool to grow Mainline and DCI and then pull Mainline down. Ugh!:mad: That needs to be changed. If Mainline shrinks, so do Large RJ's.

Maybe slowplay can shed some light on that. Can we get rid of that clause?

Waves,

First of all, being a DAL-N guy I had to hold back in responding to your rather provocative posts and give you the benefit of being new here. Your intent was not to be provocative, but you were not knowingly so. Your own side of the equation helped you to come around to not going there on the N-S issues that have been hashed out on here many times and a repeat is no fun. To help you better understand, most N guys look at this merger (or what ever it is) as one step forward and three steps backwards. Most N guys are not really happy about this merger. I'm sure the S guys have similar feelings, but I would not know the extent of their feelings, but I do respect that they have their feelings what ever they are. So, my intent here is, that if you understand where the other side is coming from you may post things a little differently so that a feud is not started as it is easy to do. I know from experience. I try to avoid N-S issues in that most of the time they are unproductive rants and tirades that accompolish nothing but get everyone worked up. Most of the time a really quick response to a post you do not agree with will result in trouble and a lashing, so the take a deep breath rule really helps in this regard. This is just trying to relay the perspective from the N side and nothing more.

As far as R A keep your eyes on the mirror and check 6 all the time jury is still out. This deal was done while he was at NWA. Gary Wilson spilled the beans is all that I will say on that.

Welcome to the forum and have fun. I try to focus on issues that all of us want going forward like SCOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pay better reserve, better schedules, etc.:)

Huh.. whut?



I prefer Pepsi. I DO like grits and Waffle House is great after a late night bender. And lastly... college football is much much much more fun that NASCAR.

I hate Michigan State too.. by the way.:D Actually I am just kidding. That was a great game, and they deserved the win. we'll get ya next year.

This ^^^^^^ +1,000,000.... :cool:

-ERs RULE!

Hey T we finally agree on something. Now lets go have a beer!!!!!!!:D

Waves;
Your point about DCI flying a 86/88 seat airframe with 76 seats does not fall of deaf ears. Bucking Bar, has made that point many many times, and it is constantly refuted that DAL wants a two class service for its DCI routes.

I agree with you and Bar. When, not if times get tough and the need to eek our more revenue, you know that adding 10/12 seats is a huge plus with revenue generation per flight.

You are a little off in your history. First, the shortage was in the 767 and 7ER categories and not the 777. We had pilots retiring from those categories and other pilots moving up into the -400 and 777 so they took double whammies in the retirements.

The only extension to the PERP program was an extension of two months for a handful of named individuals (less than 10) that were line check airman on the 767. They were prohibited from flying anything other than line checks. The whole point was to train more pilots and then let them go. They actually did not last until the end of January, so the extension was for three weeks. I guess you could call having 7 pilots work for three additional weeks a huge extension, but that seems to stretch the definition of huge.

Just one more thought before I get to studying. It occured to me that there are probably a lot of new MD-90 drivers here. One word of caution. In the past, for initial training we didn't even get in the 90 sim, just the 88. The first time I saw the 90 cockpit was for my IOE. That may have been changed by now, but if not, be careful with this issue. Like the MD-11, the MD-90 has gated thrust reversers which allow increased emergency thrust if absolutely needed. It requires 17lbs. of pull to go through the gate. This isn't much force and you may not even know it happened. If you do accidentally go through the gate, upon the next engine start, you will get an L/R EEC failure on the OAP. The airplane is now basically dead until it gets a boroscope inspection on the affected engine/s and possibly a dual engine change. Welcome to the 90. It still beats the 88 hands down. The good news is that you will get some time off. The bad news is you will have to explain to the CPO why you pulled the reversers through the emergency thrust gate. Happy Flying

I beleive the extension you are referring to was the second extension and not the extension I was referring to. It was as you say a short extension. We did have pilots retire from both categories, but it was the 777 they threatened to park for lack of Captains, not the 767. Additionally they were only allowed to fly IOE's in the extension part only, because they failed to train anyone during the first year. I could be completely wrong on this, but that is how old memory serves. Thanks.

P.S.: I beleive you may be mistaken. We were never short on 767 Captains or instructors until they finally started converting guys to the 777. There was no excuse for not training new 777 guys and at the same time training 767 replacements.

Believe it or not, that was one of the big reasons I voted no was because of that very statement.

Yeah the FO's took a hit on the 90 to 320 swap. If you were 70% or below in the 90 category you didn't hold a position in SLC. I was at 67% on the 90 and will be 98% on the 320. Hoping for growth in SEA or LAX and counting the months until Dec 2012.

Thanks keenster: Nearly all my posts about the N/S issues have been defensive rebuttals and I have been trying to dig myself out of this hole I have created for myself for days. Apparently I opened an old can of worms that I wish I hadn't; however, I did discover that most of the guys here are DAL N, and that only one DAL S came to my rescue. I guess most of the DAL S guys were saying to themselves, "Ooooh, this guy is gonna get his butt kicked here. LOL I love you N guys, but you're still not gettin my Bud Light. :D

I'm still a bit confused, but then that is usually the case. Ha Are you going to the 320 or following the 90?

And the spare 146, the all-white one, had 100 seats if I recall correctly. And it flew every day, usually full, in addition to the other 4-88 seaters, so it really wasn't a spare. I believe ASA could have acquired up to 20 146s according to the agreement.

Hoser
Since 1989 :D
ROLL TIDE!

Heyas,

Last I heard, DAL was going to pony up for the "Product Improvement Package" for the 330 which ups the gross weight.

NWA was notoriously stingy on stuff like that. They asked Boeing to leave the taxi light off of the 727s so they could use a 707 towbar.

Nu

The initial PRP agreement was signed in September 2004 and the duration was until December 31, 2005. This was the original language from the LOA:

e. The Company will terminate the employment of any post-retirement pilot who remains employed effective no later than 2359 hours of the last day of the December, 2005 bid period.

In early December 2005, letter 50, which was the short duration agreement that established the arbitration panel for contract rejection and had the 14% pay cut, was the one and only extension of the PRP program and the extension expired in February 2006. Many people thought there was an extension because the PRP program basically died in early 2005 due to no retirements and no need. It became active again in summer 2005 as it became more and more likely that Delta was headed to Chapter 11. It may have felt like the program was extended then, but it was just taken out of mothballs and really ramped up in the fall of 2005.

The bottleneck was always in the 767/ER program. Any 777 shortages resulted from the inability to pull out 767/ER pilots to train as that category was grossly understaffed. As I said before it was stretched at both ends, pilots moving up due to retirements and pilots retiring in category. An additional complicating factor was the closure of the DFW base. DFW had shrunk down from a base with L-1011 and 767 flying to an MD-88 only base. The pilots left there were very senior. They had been displaced and the majority of those pilots had been displaced to 767/ER slots. However, they couldn't go to school until they actually closed the category. Our scheduling committee recommended that they close the base early to put those pilots in 767/ER school and get them on the line and the company accepted their recommendation. (this also led to a very sad chapter in DALPA history, but that story is for another day)

They had delayed the decision too long, until July 2005, and the shortage just got worse as we approached bankruptcy. We started digging out of the hole when the liquidity shortfall hit and early retirement distributions were shut off in October of 2005. The company was unsure if they could finish the backfilling by December 2005, the original end date, and they asked for the small extension in letter 50. The whole point was to train pilots into higher paying positions, so it seemed like a no brainer. They got rid of all the PRP's with only a three week extension. The company finally fully caught up with staffing around the late spring 2006 and started recalls about a year after that.

I had totally forgotten about that, but I believe you are correct.

Great post, great info. I didn't remember it quite like that, but it is obvious that your memory is much better than mine. Ha What you say makes sense, but I could have sworn there were two extensions. Thanks for setting me straight.

Random question. Does anyone know what it means when a travelnet listing shows 16 seats available in first but only 3 authorized to sell. The airport standby list shows all 16 seats available in first. What's the deal? The aircraft is an A-319 if that makes any difference.

When the seats are shown as available, the passenger has not checked in yet... typically.

I could've used one of these today to grab some lunch in Downtown Memphis. 2 Blocks to Beale St, and I thought I was going to have to beat the beggars off me. :mad:

Get a job you LAZY JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to start carrying McDonald's applications and pens. Then when they ask for $$$ I'll hand them that and add 'You get free food as well, so it's a double bonus.':mad:

Any latest and greatest on Delta hiring? Also any rumors of dal pulling 10 744's and 25 767's out of the desert. Heard that and they were short widebody staffing. how Does the 22d3 staffing report compare with dec 2010 catagory lists?

lol !

Purportedly they will be bring jets back for 2011. Not sure if we will get that many back for 2010 as we just do not have the staffing. I could be wrong.

I would say that we will have a definitive answer to you hiring question in the next few months. To further clarify, I believe that letters asking for intention of ones desire to recall will be coming out before the middle of summer.

The May 2010 AE will shed light on a few things. Not all but a few.

Acl,

Should check my PM b4 I reply.. Do they send another recall letter, I got one a few months back on intent to be recalled?

TYG

This is the best rumor I have heard in a long time. Who's 744's and 767's would they be, United? With few exceptions, I believe DAL only parked our 767-200's. I flew those for about 3 years. Strange airplane with incredibly touchy brakes, but I would love to see them return.

I would assume that they need to offer recall to the furlough bypass guys from the top down. Of course everyone has been offered recall, but I am sure some sort of notification would go out to you guys that they are looking for intent prior to staffing the classes.
I could be wrong though. I know that they sent out letters for guys that were hired in 2001 prior to announcing that they were interviewing to the masses.

Check with your coordinator. I know you have, but it never hurts to ask what type of notification they are planning to give once they will be offering classes.

There are plus or minus depending on the day about 4 ER's and 25 or so 757's in VCV and MZJ.

I know for certain there are several 767-300ERs in the desert, plus several domestic ships.

As far as the 744s, I think there are 2 of ours that are in the desert.

For acl65pilot and 80ktsclamp: Are the ER's ours or someone elses. Seems like I remember us parking some 75's, but I don't remember parking any ER's. Seems like such a waste to park 744's in the desert. Hope we get em back. I've never even been in the cockpit of one of those. Bet its sweet.

They (763ERs) are ours... There was even an A330 in the desert that recently got pulled out.

I remember years back UAL was taking delivery of the 744s and then flying them directly to the desert. So sad for such a beautiful machine.

The 744 cockpit is very nice... lots of room... 5 total seats! Once you get in the seat it's about like a 757, but the cockpit just keeps going back and back.

80 is correct the ER's are ours.

That's right. Awful bird!! I wouldn't recommend anyone senior to me to fly them:cool:

Yes reddog25! I agree! Stay away for the Airbus 320/330. Dangerous airplane. Look what happens when you try to land it in a crosswind!:eek:

http://www.overtheairwaves.com/cross.gif


Or this......

YouTube - Lufthansa Airbus 320 crosswind landing wing strike

:p