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Old 03-28-2012 | 07:18 AM
  #93981  
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From: 777B
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Originally Posted by Timbo
The other advantage of the 777LR is it's range. We did the math the other night and we came up with about 20-21 hours with full fuel (330,000lbs). Of course if you're full of fuel you're not full of cargo and pax too, that's why it's usually "Load Optimized" coming out of Joburg.

Some nights it's 17 hours flying time (plus alternate fuel, etc.) and the field elevation at JNB is 5,500, which is 300 feet higher than DEN. The most fuel I've had on board is 310,000, only because it was snowing in ATL (a year ago Jan.) I've never seen them fill it all the way up with fuel. BUT I have seen the note, "Must burn fuel to get down to max T/O wt."

The 777 is a "range" airplane, whereas the 747 is an "Uplift" airplane. If you need tons of stuff, and 400 pax, moved a shorter range (12-14 hours), use the 747. If instead you have less pax, and some cargo, but it needs to go a lot further, non-stop (16-17 hrs.) use the 777.
One more thing about the LR is the amazing fuel flow toward the end of the flight, it is really, really low: 12-13K/hr. For a plane that took off at 750K, that is like getting 90mpg in your 4 dr Caddy with 20's.

I am with George, the 773 is probobly in our future.

I have got to say also, those GE motors are really both a technical and operational work of art.
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:22 AM
  #93982  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Originally Posted by Timbo
The other advantage of the 777LR is it's range. We did the math the other night and we came up with about 20-21 hours with full fuel (330,000lbs). Of course if you're full of fuel you're not full of cargo and pax too, that's why it's usually "Load Optimized" coming out of Joburg.

Some nights it's 17 hours flying time (plus alternate fuel, etc.) and the field elevation at JNB is 5,500, which is 300 feet higher than DEN. The most fuel I've had on board is 310,000, only because it was snowing in ATL (a year ago Jan.) I've never seen them fill it all the way up with fuel. BUT I have seen the note, "Must burn fuel to get down to max T/O wt."

The 777 is a "range" airplane, whereas the 747 is an "Uplift" airplane. If you need tons of stuff, and 400 pax, moved a shorter range (12-14 hours), use the 747. If instead you have less pax, and some cargo, but it needs to go a lot further, non-stop (16-17 hrs.) use the 777.
Ding Ding Ding.

Every jet has its fit, some are more versatile than others. The network guys got a woody when they saw the insane portfolio of types they would get to play with when the fleets were merged. For some routes or flying and at the right price point just about any jet can be profitable.

The 777-200LR is a niche aircraft. It was made for ULH flying and it has no equal on those routes.
The 747-400 and 777-300ER are bread and butter aircraft that can cover 80-90% of the Long-Haul flying.

Delta has no jet between 300 and 400 seats, that a much to large gap, and I expect it to be filled. Having a jet that fits that sweet spot and also carries boatloads of cargo makes the 777-300ER inevitable.

There is a dark side to the 777-300ER when it comes to Delta pilots...
Should it be used on transatlantic routes, it would count as about two 7ERs from an EASK standpoint. That means that when Delta finally gets around to fix the production balance gap, the 777-300ER could do it with half the pilots required diluting the upside potential for pilot jobs...
Basically all this time we've been looking at the AFKLM pilots being "hopping mad" will bite us when Delta gets that jet, after all, they've had it all along, and that's one of the reasons the block hours currently work in our favor...

BTW: Last year AMR began the year with an order for two 777-300ERs but ended the year with a total of nine 777-300ER on the books...

And just a reminder with all this 717 and 777 speculation -- aircraft orders aren't a contract item. Delta will purchase the jets Delta wants.
If Delta needs unlimited 76+ seaters right now Delta can have that right now, with Delta pilots at the controls.

Cheers
George
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:33 AM
  #93983  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Originally Posted by scambo1
...that is like getting 90mpg in your 4 dr Caddy with 20's...
Quote of the day!


Scambo rolling into the ATL from Joburg

Cheers
George
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:38 AM
  #93984  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by Columbia
Ive heard a little differently(that it won't cause people to exit early). How about a 6 month window in which to take the benefit? After that, no dice.
Talk is cheap. Lots of guys say they will go early, but when it really comes down to pulling the handles.. naaaah.... we don't need to spend anything on this. Actually.. and this is not my original thought.. but if the company were smart, they would offer a program whereby they would pay the medical if guys sign on. the caveat being that the company tells you when you are out the door. There would be a window like you said, but your last flight could be in any month therein. That way, they could dampen out the training for the upcoming retirements. But.. that is the company's problem. Frankly, I don't know how they are gonna keep these big... small categories operating when the retirements start happening.
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:41 AM
  #93985  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Almost as much? Our 777's carry 269 pax. Our 744's carry 393 pax. Our 777's carry about 30K in cargo. Our 744's can carry 60K in cargo.

???

Carl
The 777s have half the number of engines, and the ones they have are more efficient. Besides, I would rather have 30 777s than 15 747s. Wouldn't you?
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:42 AM
  #93986  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Speaking of "Production Balance," KLM is increasing capacity into IAD starting in July.
KLM is adding 3 additional weekly KLM-IAD flights, up from daily service to 10 weekly flights.
In addition on the days with one flight, the aircraft is being up-gaged from a 332 to a 333.


Cheers
George
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:42 AM
  #93987  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
tsquare is in major denial over the capability of the whale. However, the performance of the 777LR is also unrivaled. They are both the kings of what they do.
Not really. It is just that I have been at DAL long enough to see that anything with more than 2 engines has a very limited life expectancy.
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:43 AM
  #93988  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Originally Posted by tsquare
The 777s have half the number of engines, and the ones they have are more efficient. Besides, I would rather have 30 777s than 15 747s. Wouldn't you?
How about 30 777 and 15 747, sheesh, why does it always have to be either or, it should be and

Cheers
George
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:45 AM
  #93989  
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Originally Posted by georgetg
Quote of the day!


Scambo rolling into the ATL from Joburg

Cheers
George
Rofl. My new screen saver. Some of you guys must have some serious viruses looking for these pics.
Old 03-28-2012 | 07:48 AM
  #93990  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Move over. Could be me!

I'll buy a $1 ticket for this chance.

I did notice it went from like $359M to $476M or something. It made a $100M jump.

The thing is, once someone wins this (me) that jackpot goes all the way down to $12M! What a fall. What a bummer if you win that $12M right after someone wins $476M. You'd walk into the lotto office looking for the $5M you didn't have last week and people would actually feel bad for you considering someone walked in and got $242M in cash, even after taxes, the week prior.
This is just sad. Buy AAPL. You will make way more money than you will in a lottery.
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