Originally Posted by Ed Harley

I know I'll probably regret entering into this discussion about the contract negotiations but I just read through the information and posts that Alpha and others recently shared and the ensuing beat down that was given to him afterwards.

I should preface that I am not a die-hard ALPA or DPA supporter. I think the two organizations are a healthy way of creating competition, which keeps both organizations on their toes and ultimately makes us stronger. I also hope for significant contractual improvements in 2012, which focuses heavily on recapturing scope.

Although Alpha's numbers in his analysis may not have been an exact "apples to apples" comparison of airlines, I think his general point shouldn't be missed. The point is that we are only worth what the market will bear. Do I think we as Delta pilots are worth more? Absolutely, but that doesn't really matter. If other airline pilots are willing to work for less, then we can't expect to get a huge contract increase that prices us significantly above the market.

I'm in the process of selling my house and I think a good analogy to the current contract negotiations is the current housing market situation. I know what my house is worth based on what I payed for it, the upgrades I've made to it, the location, etc... However, I also know I'll never get that much for it because the market is in control of the selling price of my house. I can't sell my house for what it's worth because there are other houses in my neighborhood that are selling for way less. There is even one that's in foreclosure that hurts the price of my house even more.

So we as Delta pilots have this great house (Delta Air Lines) that we feel is superior to other houses for sale. Unfortunately, other houses on our street (United, US Airways, Jetblue, etc...) are willing to sell their house for less than it's worth. Then the house that's in foreclosure (American bankruptcy) drives the price of all of our houses down even more. There are also a bunch of cheap pre-fab homes (Regionals) that people were buying like crazy for the last 10 years, which flooded the housing market and are now falling apart. Sure there is the guy down the street that sold his house a few years ago for what his house was worth (Southwest), but the owner is now seeing potential financial problems and already asking to renegotiate the terms on his deal.

So anyway, even though I know we have this great airline with the best pilots in the world, it's unlikely that we will get a contract that equals what I think we're worth because of the current market. Sure we could ask for what we're worth and we don't budge off of that number because of our principals, but I think we'll be sitting here in two years with our same house and no still no buyers.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge

Can anyone give me a quick explanation of "Maximum Credit" in PBS?

I'm thinking of bidding the following in bid group 1:

1. Start Pairings
2. Set Condition Maximum Credit Else Start Next

My question is what will trigger the "else start next"?

ALV is 78, with LCW of 70:30-85:30. What credit threshold does PBS need to build me to, to get a max line?

The reason I ask is I'm in training half the month and can bid reserve and still end up with 76ish hours. If that's all I'm going to get anyways, I'd rather just be on reserve. I don't want to get stuck with a line worth less than 80 hours or so, when I could sit reserve for 76.

Thanks

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'd call the PBS Bid assistance line. They are very knowledgable WRT what triggers what. If you tell them exactly what you want, they can usually tell you what you need to put. I've had success when calling them. YMMV.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

^^^^ I still think that scheme is coming to the entire fleet one day.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

It most certainly is contract time and your union and your management are out in full force. Many new faces coming out of the woodwork lately. Very few of the new faces championing raising the bar on this riddled profession.

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

Now a logical thinking person would have to ask him/herself, why would someone (supposedly a pilot) go to so much trouble to write this drivel. Each of you make your own determination. It most certainly is contract time and your union and your management are out in full force. Many new faces coming out of the woodwork lately. Very few of the new faces championing raising the bar on this riddled profession.

Stay strong minded and don't give in to the desired weakening of your resolve. They want to slowly move your mind to a place where you are happy with a 10 or 15% raise....where you feel lucky just to have a job and a couple coins in your pocket.

Originally Posted by capncrunch

Did you notice in his letter how he managed to discount SWA all while putting gloom into the picture. Good stuff.

When I read stuff like that I wonder what the writers incentive is for setting the bar low and managing expectations.

Originally Posted by Phuz

Thing is when a neighbor like DAL sets their value at the same level or higher than SWA the pressure on ticket prices goes up as well.

The ideal solution would be to have everyone's wages/benefits tied together and all go up at the same time (like oil) that keeps the costs even for all companies and simply results in the costs being passed on to the customers.

Unfortunately, contracts are not negotiated all at once (even within ALPA) so we have to negotiate seperately. It does not mean that we cannot negotiate a large raise however, we just need others to follow suit. Instead of looking at it like "lets not end up like SWA", maybe "lets help SWA raise the bar" is more appropriate.

Originally Posted by georgetg

...really really trying to stay out of the intellectually flawed "housing" analogy, but the pull is too strong...must...resist...dangint

Ok here's the deal if the housing analogy float's your boat, the Southwest house is now your neighbor, they just moved in...they just got a new addition put in and reappraised...

The Delta house is bigger and has more square footage, more bathrooms and a bigger yard...that's your comp...

Please let's make that terrible housing analogy die...

Maybe somebody just made it big in Vegas and can relate their experience so we have another analogy for our negotiating team...


Cheers
George