Originally Posted by georgetg

My observations:

Pilot unity is crucial, especially when negotiating a contract. Its management's job to divide and conquer the pilot group. These guys: Ford & Harrison, Labor and Employment Law Firm specialize in that and one of the founding members of the firm is on the Delta BOD. As someone who has been through a union drive to get ALPA representation, I can tell you pitting one group against another is their specialty...Reserve, line-holder, Small base vs large, widebody vs narrow, senior vs junior, North vs South, ALP vs DPA are all distractions that help reduce our resolve and lessen our chances for the best contract possible. We are all Delta pilots, lets have each other's back. The girls wil help the manly-men and the manly-men will help the girls...

The manning formula is like catastrophic emergency insurance. Its good to know it's there, you hope to never use it because things will have really gone to hell when it kicks in. What exactly does the 60 hrs average/ reserve in the manning formula looks like:

Let's say it's a particularly busy summer flying season, a reserve averages 90 hrs for the three summer months June, July and August. That's 270 hrs cumulative for the three months. Using the formula of 60/reserve average, staffing would only increase if the same reserve averaged 50 hrs for the remaining 9 months of the year:

60 x 12 = 720 annually

90 x 3 = 270
50 x 9 = 450
Total 720

As you see the three months in summer just don't really impact the manning formula, which is why the other limits in the PWA are so crucial. Taking days-off away from when you're swamped in June and August and redistributing them to the months where there is little flying just isn't a gain in QOL no matter how you spin it...

Adding a day of SC is a concession, especially if the inequity of the 24 hr short-call for international reserves will be patched by the upcoming FTDT regs. Remember the reduction from 8 to 6 short-call days in 2008, was presented as a key accomplishment of the JCBA according to TO and LM (NNP 08-03 & From the Chairman June 3, 2008)

Ask yourself this: why would Delta ask for the changes to reserve rules as presented in the NNP if it would have no effect on staffing, reserve schedules and green-slips? Delta plans on using the new higher limits or they wouldn't have asked for them, isn't that self evident? It would be like pilots asking the company for higher pay but suggesting that not everybody would be drawing the new higher amount.

As I said before: The changes to the reserve rules have a potential to have an adverse impact on staffing, availability of premium flying and reduce the protections in the current PWA that help put a lid on how far a reserve can be pushed during a busy period. If the negotiation also produce increases in vacation and bring any sheduled non-flying activity into the ADP formula much of the potential adverse impact on reserves can be mitigated while getting gains for all pilots regardless of bid-status. I am awaiting the forthcoming NNP that might detail exactly those changes...

Cheers
George

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Okay, when was the reserve system better?

Originally Posted by Cogf16

I think 3 hrs a day is low but 5 aday??? A week of vacation should cover a typical 4 day trip, say 22-25 hours. So I'd be happy with 3.5 hrs/day How can you justify needing 5 a day? Who works 35 flt hours in a week?(other than some long intl trips) I would rather spend negotiating capital on something other than this.

Frats,

Originally Posted by tomgoodman

The story goes that way, way back, reserves were called in seniority order, and could decline the trip. Then crew sched called the next-most-senior reserve, and so on until somebody took it or the bottom guy had to take it. Senior guys would bid reserve and stay home until they got bored enough to fly a trip.
If true, that was probably in the '50s or '60s, when bases were small and trips were few.

Originally Posted by pilotc90a

I have spent the long part of my short career on reserve. I was astonished to learn that a week of vacation only gave me 4 additional days off. When I was able to hold a line, the four additional days did allow me to get additional days off on either side of my vacation time off. but a Sunday to Saturday off wasn't nearly enough time to get away. a week of vacation should mean a week off of the job.

Originally Posted by scambo1

Well, thanks for offering your constructive debate. I guess you don't have any constructive debate to add.

For some reason when I quoted you, your statement that these boards dont represent the interests of the average delta pilot disappeared.

I guess in that case they must represent the interests of the average delta manager.

Originally Posted by RonRicco

But, prior to C2K you also had high and low yellow slips without regard to DOA, partial month move ups (allowed you to hold a line for part of the month) first out on a YS on an X day. This gave you a lot of control over your schedule and the ability to fill up quite easily.

C2K eliminated PMM and restricted YS to DOA, but also introduced the long call window we have now.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Fair enough. But if it still sucks, it still sucks, and IMHO, that is inexcusable. If it results in fewer pilots required, THAT is a CONCESSION. If the above 2 are true, I want to be paid handsomely for giving that up. The percentage goes up with each concession.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

I doubt 10% of our seniority list even read these forums, and probably not 1-2% opine on them.

I do find them entertaining, worthy of reading, and occasionally enlightening. But I also think that the mindset you find here truly does not reflect the average line pilot--for good and bad. If you were to take the pulse of the various forums after every TA that has been reached in the internet era, you would think that every one would go down in flames with overwhelming NO votes. In fact at DAL we have never NOT ratified a TA!

I'm not even saying that is a good thing either--there are at least two TAs that I believe we should have shot down, if not more. But that doesn't change the fact that the typical line pilot tends to vote yes more than the typical message board posting pilot.