No, I did NOT "make it up." What I said is exactly what I have seen. The vast majority of pilots I've heard talk about doing CDO's either talk about how awful it is because they're wiped out flying fatigued, or they talk about how fantastic they are because they get to be home all day, every day, and run a side business or play with the kids, etc. It has always been crystal clear to me that the vast majority of them are not sleeping any significant amount during the day. Yeah, maybe a couple hour nap when they get home in the morning... but nothing like the "uninterrupted 8 hours of sleep" that sleep science says most human beings need to be well rested. For the most part (of course there is probably some rare exception out there who sleeps 8 hours during the day), the pilots who like these things are rationalizing the fatigue thing so they can justify all the nice time they get to spend at home. That's my assessment of it.

No. I did not. I only did a couple of them (thank God!) and they weren't back to back. I thought they were bad enough... can't imagine how bad it would be to do 2 or 3 in a row. I've never been a nap taker and I don't do well trying to sleep during the day. Fortunately, I was able to avoid all but those two CDO's that I did.


On that I will agree with you. My anecdotal evidence IS the exact opposite of yours. And I didn't even call you a liar. :rolleyes:

Jeez was that some kind of Freudian thing. I meant Eric. Anyway my point stands despite my obvious inability to sift thought data and turn that into facts.

So you've talked to CDO pilots and come to the conclusion that "the vast majority of them are not sleeping any significant amount during the day" without asking them directly if they sleep during the day? I guess your understanding of "made it up" differs from yours.

This is pure speculation, but if you've done two CDOs under the old rules and didn't sleep perhaps you're projecting your experience onto others? Is it possible that CDOs are safe and that you haven't considered the evidence?

I still don't think Delta should do CDOs but the evidence, or lack thereof, suggests they are not inherently unsafe.

Oh c'mon...there are a LOT of Europe flights that don't land until past 3AM home base time, not to mention Africa and South America flights.

6 hours behind the door is completely unsat for me. I can walk into the room. Take a shower, brush my teeth and go to bed in less than a half hour. But then I lay awake for two hours. I just take too long to settle down after a flight. During my military flying I needed Ambien to fall asleep in these situations. If I have napped during the day I even have a harder time falling asleep. So when my alarm goes off if I was on a SDP at best I would have slept 3.5 hours. I would have to call tracking and tell them I couldn't fly. Like other posters have said its an automatic no from me.

BTW. The company is really pushing the early retirements so they can avoid the training waterfall. Can we please get some improvements out of this? I say if they want early retirements they can give us 5.15 on vacation and training.

Navy Aviation Medicine did research with NASA a few years back and showed data which said someone with 2 nights in a row of 4-5 hrs of sleep performed similarly to someone with .08 BAC.

Yes, I am assuming that sleeping a good part of the day away was not what they were referring to when they talked about how awesome it was to have every day off at home.

What I am saying is pretty much common knowledge.

for you.......not for me. I got my 8 hours a day when I did these things but a pilot being irresponsible is an entirely different matter. They should be held accountable, just like someone that shows up for a 6am report and pulled an all nighter.

Data you say? Link?

Don't know him, the study simply takes form 4 data and collates it. Most likely by undergrad students. Very easy to verify by anyone including the union. Oh wait the pilots working for the union want to keep their pay as low as possible so they lie about it also!