How much sleep do you think you would get with 6 hours "behind the door?" Here's what I figure for me... best case: I walk into the room and the clock starts running. I know from experience that the absolute fastest I can change clothes, unpack, brush my teeth, take a shower, lay down in bed, and go to sleep is about 30 minutes. Best case. Sometimes it takes me longer. Then, if I really rush in the morning, I can be ready to walk out the door in 30 minutes. I usually allow 45 minutes but can do it in 30. So with 6 hours "behind the door," the most sleep I'm going to get is 5.

Can you do better than that? Do you think 5 hours sleep in a 24 hour period is enough sleep to be well rested and 100% to conduct a flight? How about several nights in a row like that? Do you REALLY think 6 hours "behind the door" is safe?

It looks like we are very close to a agreement on a early retirement program. MEC looked at it and sent the negotiating committee back for some minor changes. Company people unavailable this week but a final TA should be done next week. No idea of details.

I think the concept is that you will sleep a bit at home also. I would be much better rested on the CDO examples then I am going to Europe, Asia, SA or Africa. Most guys get up in the morning around 7. They don't sleep during the day or spend it commuting. Arrive in base and brief at say 6pm. Depart around 8 and fly all night long. Maybe bag a hour or possibly two of sleep on break. Then land in the morning 20 to 24 hours later. Everyone in the cockpit is a zombie. That's for US airlines. Our counterparts in Europe do the reverse with No breaks on flights under 10 hours. The bottom line is unless you only allow airlines to fly from 7am to 10pm you're going to have tired people.
I have a friend who only bids CDO's at his airline. Sleeps a bit in the morning when he gets in to get his 8 hours. He hates international trips and says he is far more fatigued on those.

Except the vast majority don't.

Are you sure you want to be posting stuff like that on a public forum?? You do realize you're speaking about a current Delta operation and saying all the pilots are "zombies." Let me know if you change your mind about the wisdom of that and I'll edit my post to protect you.

And just because we have some types of flying that prevent challenges to getting adequate rest doesn't mean we should add more!

And that, folks, is why I'm into this argument with all fours. Guys like sailingfun would never have to do a CDO if we got them. You can pretty much bet that whatever he advocates is the same thing Delta management wants. We need to nip this CDO thing in the bud before it finds its way into another negotiation.

It's been nipped. It's not even something the company pushed for. I posted on here that it originated within the pilot group and was told that was total BS. Turns out that was exactly right. CDO's are dead. Get over it!

I sleep anywhere from 6-8 hours every night. I don't see the issue you have here. On Saturday I go to BRU and depart at 10:25 on Monday, which is 4:25 back home. Pick up for international departures varies by location, so BRU is 2:00 prior, making it 2:25 back home with a 1:25 wake up call. I have only on occasion not been able to sleep in Europe, but I do sleep until I wake up on arrival. Having a 2 hour or so break helps as well as I don't have problems sleeping on the jet.

BRU is a nice easy international trip. Good layover also. Like many however I can't go to sleep at 6pm to get 8 hours sleep before going home when I got up at 1pm that day. What gets worse is when you have a 5 hour delay out of JFK and are still legal because of the 6:30 flight time.

And somebody else posted on here that they flew with SD and he stated that CDO's were a really great solution for the company.

I'm not buying your assertion that it's over. And every time it rears its ugly head, I'm going to whack it as hard as I can!

Early retirement program? Why?

As if we needed any more evidence that socialism is a really bad idea.:D