They can do that, it just requires paying more for the rooms. From the numbers I've heard on how much we pay for a room there is no way most hotels are going to reward us for that stuff.

It's a deal where a pilot can "sell" his vacation back to the company and get the money, but then he wouldn't have any vacation days. It's a concession because it then means that fewer pilots are required. Sorry to whizz all over the perfect idea for our upcoming contract. :rolleyes:

You're helping me make my point. How many GS do you think you'd get under 1.5>80?

None.

The ho's want to fly right up to 100, and get outsized rewards for it. Getting a GS a month might be OK with you, and me, but it's not predictable enough for them. They itch for the extra hours, and sometimes they freak out and bite on a WS, for fear someone else might fly. Can't stand just sitting tight, and holding out for a GS, like you or me. It's not enough; nothing is ever enough.

So they want to institutionalize their behavior: WS, WS, WS, and get a special reward for it.

NFW.

Au contraire mon frere.

Yes, I have done ALPA work, believe it or not. Hotels exactly.

I was recruited into it since I have a varied history working with Starwood.

I did see a lot of the corporate rates. There are corporate rates lower than what we negotiate at some hotels for certain, at the time.

Those staying on those corporate rates definitely collect the points.

Recently saw on a Westin check-in to a crew hotel room a master SPG number attached to it when I asked them to attach mine so I could at least get the stay credit.

Those points are going somewhere.

It's one of two epic turds in buried in this otherwise sensible letter that Carl floated. I'm not suggesting Carl is responsible for it, but it goes to show you how you can place shiite sandwiches within a colorful trial balloon, and gently float them over the pilot group, hoping people get distracted by the spectacle.

It's like a 1/3 of your profit-sharing being placed inside a shiny 717, but much worse. You can fly in the left seat of that 717 while cursing the loss of 1/3 of your profit-sharing, but you can't even bid that 717 t all, if Delta pilots are busy selling their vacation, and hoaring around at FAR limits.

Big picture on this new attempt at 1.5>80:

It's very, very important to understand how we split hypothetical dollars gained in negotiations. I agree with the anonymous author that there are plenty of ways to increase W-2's.

Payrates help everyone equally, in theory, but give the highest absolute $ amount to the highest earners, obviously. Conversely, flat-rate items, such as better health insurance, or uniform allowances, help the lowest earners the most, in terms of % "increase", but give everyone the same amount.

I'm all for giving more in flat-rate items, because I'm sick of subsidizing my job with uniforms, health care, etc. I'm OK with helping the junior guys a little more in that sense, because I want a higher DC%, higher payrates to steer some money towards senior guys in proportion to income.

I'm just dead-set against giving extra-special benefits, above and beyond, to guys who fly even more. Especially when we already have great system (GS) to help guys that help the company in a bind, at 2X pay. Anyone who flies a normal schedule, anyone who understands that incentivizing routine overtime hurts advancement, and anyone who relies on GS to supplement their income, needs to understand this is a barely disguised reach into their wallet.

No I saw this letter, it was sent to me via text and being passed around from someone let's say on the other side of the debate then Carl.

I'll gladly stand corrected but honestly, I've never seen airline crews get points. I think I recall back in my coex days hearing we paid as little as $35/night for a hotel. They're not going to give us points for that.

I do know Hilton does sometimes give points and benefits but not all locations and I see guys ask a lot and get denied a lot.

Whoever that person/entity that belongs to that master SPG number was collecting the points for the rooms we were booked in. They did give me a stay credit though.

A few months ago on the last day of the month I had another 717B ride with us on the van to the hotel. I was on a 3-day GS. He said he was one a 2-day WS. Caught me off guard, they'd handed out a ton of GSs of those days, why a WS?

Well, he happily volunteered why, "I already got 3 greenslips this month so I knew I wouldn't get another one so I did a WS." Then laughing "I guess I took someones GS." He meant it.

To each his own and seniority affords him that privilege but he later mentioned the 3 GSs were the only flying he had done all month because he bid LCA and had been bought off all his other trips. He talked about his WSing days back on the 88.

It's just anecdotal, no way to stop that it's just how the system works.

Now I am always open to reviewing the system between GSs and 1.5x/2x pay, seniority vs others, etc. I am sure the company would scoff at 1.5x and then 2x pay plus GSs, but they'd have to keep the GS system just to encourage coverage during IROPS.