Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1703627)

What a ridiculous question. How can you trust Caplinger? Or any politician that you voted for? I suppose you've trusted every Council 20 rep? We all know they've never played politics ever. GMAB. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by skippy (Post 1703751)

we all know delta will get an offer and emphasize the time value of money

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1703944)

Yeah, God forbid that any actual math enter into the discussion.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1703796)

So you're saying they are all politicians? FWIW, I agree. But do you see the problem there? We don't need politicians representing us. We need people who are passionate about restoring our profession. People who are not afraid to call a spade a spade, regardless of who's feathers it might ruffle or how it might affect their political future.

And isn't it interesting how, when the debate gets difficult, you have to try and make it about DPA instead of about the topic of discussion...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k7RYJbWgXb...%2BHerring.gif

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1704015)

Oh I see. TC has no relevance here? Even though you and others were willing to have the organization that he created represent and bargain for us? Not a red herring, as DPA is still effecting us a pilot group, but I'm not surprised you used it as that's a classic defense mechanism.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1704015)

BTW, if you think that you can be represented and bargained for by anyone or any entity without politics being involved, then you're living in a fantasy land. Politics control the world, and money controls politics.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1704129)

We were desperate enough to want to make a change in representation because ALPA has become such a bad option with Moak and his disciples so strongly entrenched. But every discussion we have doesn't have to revolve around who represents us. Sometimes we might want to discuss things like... oh I don't know... C2015 and RESTORING our profession and our careers! :rolleyes:


I never said politics weren't "involved." (You obviously have attended the Tsquare School of Redirection. :D) I was talking about how politics are way too prominent in decisions being made. Given the severity of the cuts we took 10 years ago, the completely different environment in which we find ourselves today, and the relatively tiny amount of recovery we've made to date... I think principle and resolve (the kind of principle and resolve that most politicians lack) is what we need. In other words, we don't need politicians, we need people who aren't afraid to call a spade a spade and do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but I think people with your jaded view of the world and acceptance of that kind of status quo are a big part of the problem with the world today and a big part of the reason why today we're still 34% below the buying power we had 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1704199)

This thread started out benign enough, then someone started to use the past results predict future performance analogy. That got turned into a DPA spear chucking session. Now we are back redirected to discussing c15.

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1703492)

Well 62% of your pilot group disagrees with you. Of course I guess they were simply duped.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1704252)

3bil--honest question: Do you think a bankruptcy-plus contract in this environment would garner 62% of the vote?

Let's be clear: C12 is an anchor around our necks going into the next round. We all (including you) must strive to separate C12 from C15 and press hard to ensure we don't grant any concessions in return for the imminent improvements.

Record profits are on the books now. Why do you hold up C12 as such a shining beacon?