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You were in college when we went through this? And you have the gall lecture us on how you would haVe done it? Reality is over 60% at pretty much every airline voted yes. Would you have been one of them? You don't know because you were not put into that posistion, and hopefully never will be. Some of the most vocal vote no types at the beginning were the ones pleading others to vote yes towards the end. You seem to have all the answers at your tender young age. Do us and all the pilots in the industry a huge favor and get involved. Run for your local lec as I'm sure with your steely-eyed resolve you will be elected in a landslide. From there it should be obvious to all at the MEC what a treasure of leadership and intelect you are and you will be quickly elected as MEC chairman. My guess is one term and ALPA president. Good luck and I can't wait to have the leadership we deserve.
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1730241)
I was in college when this was happening. Our union should have realized that there was no way for us to save it from going bankrupt. To answer your questions, I would have been in favor of full pay until the bankruptcy. I do not think we should have taken any pay cuts prior to the bankruptcy. We then would have started the bankruptcy negotiations from a much higher position. We should have told the company that we knew what they already did. Bankruptcy was inevitable, and that we would negotiate in bankruptcy. This is all in hind sight. I think it is obvious that some mistakes were made. Hopefully they are not repeated.
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1730241)
I was in college when this was happening. Our union should have realized that there was no way for us to save it from going bankrupt. To answer your questions, I would have been in favor of full pay until the bankruptcy. I do not think we should have taken any pay cuts prior to the bankruptcy. We then would have started the bankruptcy negotiations from a much higher position. We should have told the company that we knew what they already did. Bankruptcy was inevitable, and that we would negotiate in bankruptcy. This is all in hind sight. I think it is obvious that some mistakes were made. Hopefully they are not repeated.
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
(Post 1730334)
If you didn't have any "skin" in the game you really don't have the right to lecture the union about what we should or should not have done back then. Going forward--yes. Lots of things are easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda" in hindsight, especially when you weren't even on the property and had nothing to gain or lose by hypthotheticals.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1730344)
What he's gonna find is that it ain't so easy when you are actually faced with that decision for real marbles. Of course, since he's young, he can afford to blow up a contract or two and still recover. If he doesn't get it all, and get it now, he'll complain. But in a few short years when he finds himself farther up the seniority list looking for grand slams instead of incremental gains that would have gotten him to the brass ring already, he'll sing a different song. My question as to that kind of tactic is why? SWA got incrementall gains for years, and all the vocals hold them up... continually... as the gold standard. No home runs... just singles and doubles. But somehow.. we're different. Fire away boys.
I think the reason that they are being held up as the "gold standard" is the fact that they have seen gains. We are still diggin ourselves out of a hole. We took a huge paycut for the paper protection of the "Bankruptcy protection letter". That worked out well and taught me that there really are no morals in business (that and the SERP's taught me that lesson). I don't expect a homerun, as you put it, but in these times I do expect more than a COLA as a raise each year. These are the times that the union has kept saying "Be patient we will get them next time because the economic environment will be better" If not in this coming contract then that would make us the type of individuals that couldn't get lucky in a Bangkok cathouse with a fist full of $20's. |
Originally Posted by NERD
(Post 1730305)
You were in college when we went through this? And you have the gall lecture us on how you would haVe done it? Reality is over 60% at pretty much every airline voted yes. Would you have been one of them? You don't know because you were not put into that posistion, and hopefully never will be. Some of the most vocal vote no types at the beginning were the ones pleading others to vote yes towards the end. You seem to have all the answers at your tender young age. Do us and all the pilots in the industry a huge favor and get involved. Run for your local lec as I'm sure with your steely-eyed resolve you will be elected in a landslide. From there it should be obvious to all at the MEC what a treasure of leadership and intelect you are and you will be quickly elected as MEC chairman. My guess is one term and ALPA president. Good luck and I can't wait to have the leadership we deserve.
I voted no. I hope his message is not correct, gall aside. You said 60% voted for prebankruptcy cuts at every airline. I wonder how that vote would have gone if they were unionized and that theoretical union took the stand that no matter what the employees did, the airlines were going to enter bankruptcy...The world may never know... |
I want as much money as possible as quick as possible. I hope we get restoration. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
(Post 1730356)
T,
I think the reason that they are being held up as the "gold standard" is the fact that they have seen gains. We are still diggin ourselves out of a hole. We took a huge paycut for the paper protection of the "Bankruptcy protection letter". That worked out well and taught me that there really are no morals in business (that and the SERP's taught me that lesson). I don't expect a homerun, as you put it, but in these times I do expect more than a COLA as a raise each year. These are the times that the union has kept saying "Be patient we will get them next time because the economic environment will be better" If not in this coming contract then that would make us the type of individuals that couldn't get lucky in a Bangkok cathouse with a fist full of $20's. |
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
(Post 1730368)
I want as much money as possible as quick as possible. I hope we get restoration. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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disregard......
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
(Post 1730334)
If you didn't have any "skin" in the game you really don't have the right to lecture the union about what we should or should not have done back then. Going forward--yes. Lots of things are easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda" in hindsight, especially when you weren't even on the property and had nothing to gain or lose by hypthotheticals.
I did not take it as him "lecturing" us. I voted for the big pay cut because I was led to believe it would keep us out of BK. I was wrong and feel that we as a pilot group were "taken to the cleaners" by management. I now believe that we were going into BK with or without pay-cuts and management played us. I think there is something there when it is said that we unwittingly helped or participated in the reset to our wages. Scoop - Just my 2 cents |
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