Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1911640)

How about buying power that ya'lll are so fond of talking? They have had no raises for almost 3 years. Inflation and all that...

TVM is a myth, I forgot. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1911643)

Trip7 = lumbergh.

He's been absolutely thrashed. I'm done feeding the troll

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1911626)

Depending upon your weighting system, some things have more value than others.

The problems for me with the TA (beyond the obvious union collusion with the company contrary to the pilots best interests) are:

Ceding scope at the top and bottom end. That's a no in and of itself. The insult to injury is that the union doesn't fight the company at all on scope...scope is jobs, not block hours or EASKs. They are just measuring tools.

Pay rate changes that are insignificant given the protections we have under the current contract. Iow, there is no demonstrable raise in rates.

Work rule concessions which make soft money or extra money elusive or non-existent.

Abrogation of seniority bidding rights without proper compensation or accounting of the effect.

Sick leave changes that are potentially overly intrusive, negligent and do not reflect the needs of the profession.

There are some small gains which are easily pointed to, but they are so small as to have very little positive effect on anything. A nickel in perdiem, 15 minutes of vacation, etc.

There more to say, and I know you are a bright guy. Somehow you see some value in this TA which is completely elusive to me.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1911626)

Depending upon your weighting system, some things have more value than others.

The problems for me with the TA (beyond the obvious union collusion with the company contrary to the pilots best interests) are:

Ceding scope at the top and bottom end. That's a no in and of itself. The insult to injury is that the union doesn't fight the company at all on scope...scope is jobs, not block hours or EASKs. They are just measuring tools.

Pay rate changes that are insignificant given the protections we have under the current contract. Iow, there is no demonstrable raise in rates.

Work rule concessions which make soft money or extra money elusive or non-existent.

Abrogation of seniority bidding rights without proper compensation or accounting of the effect.

Sick leave changes that are potentially overly intrusive, negligent and do not reflect the needs of the profession.

There are some small gains which are easily pointed to, but they are so small as to have very little positive effect on anything. A nickel in perdiem, 15 minutes of vacation, etc.

There more to say, and I know you are a bright guy. Somehow you see some value in this TA which is completely elusive to me.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1911646)

T,
You said john Q has no sympathy for us, yet I'm supposed to find sympathy for the Fed Ex guys that are so clearly and undeniably ahead of us. I envy them. They have what we once had and it was good.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1911641)

Translation: I'm only debating why I'm voting YES because this trip pull stuff doesn't affect me, and the TA will increase my pay rate. I think. I hope.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1911648)

I don't have any problem with your analytical skills, Scambo. You may be overstating some negatives, or even understating them, from my perspective. You shouldn't assume that I will use my personal vote one way or another. It's mine. I might volunteer my time, but never my vote.

I DO see value in this TA. It's obvious there is significant value. The question is: is it enough, or more specifically, is it the right contract for me? We all decide that individually.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1911626)

Depending upon your weighting system, some things have more value than others.

The problems for me with the TA (beyond the obvious union collusion with the company contrary to the pilots best interests) are:

Ceding scope at the top and bottom end. That's a no in and of itself. The insult to injury is that the union doesn't fight the company at all on scope...scope is jobs, not block hours or EASKs. They are just measuring tools.

Pay rate changes that are insignificant given the protections we have under the current contract. Iow, there is no demonstrable raise in rates.

Work rule concessions which make soft money or extra money elusive or non-existent.

Abrogation of seniority bidding rights without proper compensation or accounting of the effect.

Sick leave changes that are potentially overly intrusive, negligent and do not reflect the needs of the profession.

There are some small gains which are easily pointed to, but they are so small as to have very little positive effect on anything. A nickel in perdiem, 15 minutes of vacation, etc.

There more to say, and I know you are a bright guy. Somehow you see some value in this TA which is completely elusive to me.

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1911656)

Just a question: What is the scope concession on the bottom end? We will get 2 E190s for every 70/76 seater on DCI. Those captains will probably be 3rd and 4th year guys. Yeah, that really sucks.