One side is mistaken
06-26-2015 | 07:06 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
From: DAL A320 CA
GC,
Tailspin? Parking lot fight club?...really?
Open your eyes, actually look at the TA...its concessionary. The company has literally given us the finger, and mind you every other work group at our company. How is next? We have been working our butts off since the merger to bring Delta out of a very dark place. I respect RA very much BUT...this is all wrong. And I have lost a huge amount of respect for him. The NC should have walked in the day after the buy back / dividend increase was announced and unfolded the WSJ and dropped off OUR TA and just said here is where you sign!
It's not your yes vote that I care about it's the others you will influence with your reasoning and mis-guided logic. GC the TA is terrible! Open your eyes and see the forest through the trees.
Tailspin? Parking lot fight club?...really?
Open your eyes, actually look at the TA...its concessionary. The company has literally given us the finger, and mind you every other work group at our company. How is next? We have been working our butts off since the merger to bring Delta out of a very dark place. I respect RA very much BUT...this is all wrong. And I have lost a huge amount of respect for him. The NC should have walked in the day after the buy back / dividend increase was announced and unfolded the WSJ and dropped off OUR TA and just said here is where you sign!
It's not your yes vote that I care about it's the others you will influence with your reasoning and mis-guided logic. GC the TA is terrible! Open your eyes and see the forest through the trees.
I was trying to discuss my rationale for my decision to vote yes and add to the conversation. Just as you think this TA gives you the middle finger, calling me a stupid sellout and coward just for voting my conscience raises the same reaction in my gut. My point was that a lot of vitriol is spewed on this anonymous web site that wouldn't normally be said face-to-face at the bar. I guess I didn't make my point very well. My bad.
If you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I was trying to respectfully discuss the details of the TA. It's clear that nobody on APC wants to hear another view, so I'll bow out of the conversation and leave you guys to enjoy your echo chamber.
You don't have to worry about my view influencing anyone else's vote..everybody knows I'm just a 12 year old living in my mother's basement!
Carl; thanks for the Pom-poms..but can we get a little underboob to lighten the mood!
CG
Last edited by CGfalconHerc; 06-26-2015 at 07:41 AM.
06-26-2015 | 07:17 AM
#152
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Sorry about my choice of words, GBU. I'd much rather discuss the TA over a beer on a layover than out in the parking lot..and it's been a long time since I "brawled in public"..so I'll save myself from a trip to the ER and apologize for making that comment.
I was trying to discuss my rationale for my decision to vote yes and add to the conversation. Just as you think this TA gives you the middle finger, calling me a stupid sellout and coward just for voting my conscience raises the same reaction in my gut. My point was that a lot of vitriol is spewed on this anonymous web sit that wouldn't normally be said face-to-face at the bar. I guess I didn't make my point very well. My bad.
If you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I was trying to respectfully discuss the details of the TA. It's clear that nobody on APC wants to hear another view, so I'll bow out of the conversation and leave you guys to enjoy your echo chamber.
Carl; thanks for the Pom-poms..but can we get a little underboob to lighten the mood!
CG
I was trying to discuss my rationale for my decision to vote yes and add to the conversation. Just as you think this TA gives you the middle finger, calling me a stupid sellout and coward just for voting my conscience raises the same reaction in my gut. My point was that a lot of vitriol is spewed on this anonymous web sit that wouldn't normally be said face-to-face at the bar. I guess I didn't make my point very well. My bad.
If you look at my previous posts, you'll see that I was trying to respectfully discuss the details of the TA. It's clear that nobody on APC wants to hear another view, so I'll bow out of the conversation and leave you guys to enjoy your echo chamber.
Carl; thanks for the Pom-poms..but can we get a little underboob to lighten the mood!
CG
I think most guys on here know your online persona.
I was gonna bring a keg to the parking lot though.
06-26-2015 | 07:38 AM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
From: DAL A320 CA
06-26-2015 | 08:51 AM
#155
Mother’s finest
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 311
Likes: 8
From: 220A
How about just do it using 2014's PS % of 17%. Probably a good average to use over 4 years.
If you actually just score it out it's a 10.6% raise over 3 years. The rates go 8633, but the total difference between life with and without the TA is 10.6%.
Just use $150/hour 12 year pilot at 90 hours a month and use the current 17% PS and 15% 401K vs the TA's adjusted PS for 2016 and 401K change for 2017 and apply the PS for both in the year that they were earned. Also use all of 2015 so that means with TA2015 you use 150 for the first half, raise the rate 8% for the second half of the year and use the full 17% PS for 2015.
I see a total of $871,884 in value without the TA and $964,447 with, a 10.6% increase.
If you actually just score it out it's a 10.6% raise over 3 years. The rates go 8633, but the total difference between life with and without the TA is 10.6%.
Just use $150/hour 12 year pilot at 90 hours a month and use the current 17% PS and 15% 401K vs the TA's adjusted PS for 2016 and 401K change for 2017 and apply the PS for both in the year that they were earned. Also use all of 2015 so that means with TA2015 you use 150 for the first half, raise the rate 8% for the second half of the year and use the full 17% PS for 2015.
I see a total of $871,884 in value without the TA and $964,447 with, a 10.6% increase.
06-26-2015 | 08:53 AM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,844
Likes: 0
From: 765-A
Honestly, I've had a bit of the opposite experience. Because most of what I heard at the start was that this was practically the worst thing in the history of aviation, as I've done my own digging I've backed away from the ledge. There is plenty that I like about the TA, and some of the issues in the cons column aren't quite the sky is falling as they first seemed. Maybe it is Stockholm Syndrome (though the extreme hyperbole by some in the anit-TA crowd doesn't help).
What are the issues you really like?
What are the con issues you feel are overblown?
06-26-2015 | 09:30 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Likes: 0
If you look at my posts, I think you will find that the problem I have is with the way the details of this TA are being communicated. If you look at the transcript I posted in the TAFACTS.com thread, you can see how hard it was for me to get information. I think if you also look around, most people will say the pay raises are not what bothers them, it's the rest of the TA. For me, it's the rest of the TA, as well, along with more omissions.
It seems like the more you find out, the worse it gets. And to find out how bad it is, you have to dig deep.
If you think the P2P rep was being evasive, how do you give a pass to guys posting stuff on a website that isn't even true? The more I dig into that website, the worse it gets. But to find out how bad it is, you don't have to dig very far.
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