Failure of Leadership We Once Believed In...
07-11-2015 | 07:41 AM
#31
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
First of all, it's all ALPA, reps fighting reps. Second of all, I'm not OK with guys consistently voting blocks, not issues. How can it possibly be that the same sets of guys have the same viewpoint, on every issue? So no, I'm really not OK with our politics.
That's not what I was talking about, however. I was talking about guys telling people in other councils who gets to represent them. Of course, guys who are hijacking a no for the purpose of launching a campaign in a council they're not even in yet, while having nothing constructive of their own to offer... that's some seriously hypocritical, amateurish and insulting stuff right there, I don't care who you are.
Makes me feel dirty for being respectful in my conversations with the two of them during the TA.
Politicians
That's not what I was talking about, however. I was talking about guys telling people in other councils who gets to represent them. Of course, guys who are hijacking a no for the purpose of launching a campaign in a council they're not even in yet, while having nothing constructive of their own to offer... that's some seriously hypocritical, amateurish and insulting stuff right there, I don't care who you are.
Makes me feel dirty for being respectful in my conversations with the two of them during the TA.
Politicians
But I don't understand your desire to prohibit "cross-council" politics.
It's not logical.
I'm based in ATL. But the NYC/SLC/CVG rep's vote on the MEC most definitely has an effect on me. I don't have a vote in their LEC election but I can and will express an opinion on who I think the NYC pilots should elect. I'm not hiding that I'm ATL based. The New York or Salt Lake pilots are free to ignore my posts or they can listen to my arguments, evaluate whether they have any merit and then decide for themselves.
So here you go:
I would urge every pilot in every council to remove any rep who voted for this TA. Thank them for their service and send them back to flying the line.
They proclaimed loud and clear that this TA is the best they can do. It obviously wasn't sufficient. Now someone else should get a try.
07-11-2015 | 07:44 AM
#32
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Ladies & Gents
We have a much larger problem than just cleaning house, which we must do. The root of our problem is a union that has lost its way. My evidence of this the fact that a significant majority of our union leadership, elected and otherwise, aggressively supported a TA rejected by 65% of our pilots. There is a glaring disconnect between our reps and those they are paid to represent. The question is why.
I think our union has become dominated by a culture of constructive engagement. Although constructive engagement can be a useful tool it should not be the guiding principle for a union. This union has effectively become an extension of management. I can't find another explanation for how they could be so out of touch with this pilot group.
To only remove the current leadership,however, would be like treating the symptoms of a disease while ignoring the disease itself. We must do both in order to change the course we have been on.
IMO we must two things moving forward if ALPA is to be salvaged. First, there must be a concrete commitment to transparency by the new leadership. Transparency, at a minimum, means releasing the survey results and publishing the full DALPA budget. There can be no accountability without transparency. And before someone tries it - publishing FPL list or telling members they can contact the treasurer to see the books is absolute BS. We need real transparency. We must demand it.
Second, we must choose new leaders who are committed to changing the culture of this union. Our union is paid to represent us, not the company. The constructive engagement concept has led us down a path where our union is way too close to management . This TA was the natural result of that concept. I'm not saying that we need to be unnecessarily adversarial but the pendulum has swung too far in one direction and we need to rebalance. Constructive engagement is one tool among many that out union should be using, but it cannot a guiding principle.
I am very concerned that our union's efforts to sell this TA may have crippled us if these negotiations actually get to the NMB. Does anyone doubt that all of the products DALPA has put out over the last month will be used against us. The company will use everyone of those documents as well as MD's words to prove what a great offer we turned down. This is just another reason why the current leadership structure must go. We have to distance ourselves from everything connected to this TA. If these people have any dignity or honor they will resign and save us the divisive process of removing them.
We have a much larger problem than just cleaning house, which we must do. The root of our problem is a union that has lost its way. My evidence of this the fact that a significant majority of our union leadership, elected and otherwise, aggressively supported a TA rejected by 65% of our pilots. There is a glaring disconnect between our reps and those they are paid to represent. The question is why.
I think our union has become dominated by a culture of constructive engagement. Although constructive engagement can be a useful tool it should not be the guiding principle for a union. This union has effectively become an extension of management. I can't find another explanation for how they could be so out of touch with this pilot group.
To only remove the current leadership,however, would be like treating the symptoms of a disease while ignoring the disease itself. We must do both in order to change the course we have been on.
IMO we must two things moving forward if ALPA is to be salvaged. First, there must be a concrete commitment to transparency by the new leadership. Transparency, at a minimum, means releasing the survey results and publishing the full DALPA budget. There can be no accountability without transparency. And before someone tries it - publishing FPL list or telling members they can contact the treasurer to see the books is absolute BS. We need real transparency. We must demand it.
Second, we must choose new leaders who are committed to changing the culture of this union. Our union is paid to represent us, not the company. The constructive engagement concept has led us down a path where our union is way too close to management . This TA was the natural result of that concept. I'm not saying that we need to be unnecessarily adversarial but the pendulum has swung too far in one direction and we need to rebalance. Constructive engagement is one tool among many that out union should be using, but it cannot a guiding principle.
I am very concerned that our union's efforts to sell this TA may have crippled us if these negotiations actually get to the NMB. Does anyone doubt that all of the products DALPA has put out over the last month will be used against us. The company will use everyone of those documents as well as MD's words to prove what a great offer we turned down. This is just another reason why the current leadership structure must go. We have to distance ourselves from everything connected to this TA. If these people have any dignity or honor they will resign and save us the divisive process of removing them.
Carl
07-11-2015 | 07:52 AM
#33
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Fair enough.
But I don't understand your desire to prohibit "cross-council" politics.
It's not logical.
I'm based in ATL. But the NYC/SLC/CVG rep's vote on the MEC most definitely has an effect on me. I don't have a vote in their LEC election but I can and will express an opinion on who I think the NYC pilots should elect. I'm not hiding that I'm ATL based. The New York pilots are free to ignore my posts or listen to my arguments, evaluate whether they have any merit and then decide for themselves.
So here you go:
I would urge every pilot in every council to remove any rep who voted for this TA. Thank them for their service and send them back to flying the line.
They proclaimed loud and clear that this TA is the best they can do. It obviously wasn't sufficient. Now someone else should get a try.
But I don't understand your desire to prohibit "cross-council" politics.
It's not logical.
I'm based in ATL. But the NYC/SLC/CVG rep's vote on the MEC most definitely has an effect on me. I don't have a vote in their LEC election but I can and will express an opinion on who I think the NYC pilots should elect. I'm not hiding that I'm ATL based. The New York pilots are free to ignore my posts or listen to my arguments, evaluate whether they have any merit and then decide for themselves.
So here you go:
I would urge every pilot in every council to remove any rep who voted for this TA. Thank them for their service and send them back to flying the line.
They proclaimed loud and clear that this TA is the best they can do. It obviously wasn't sufficient. Now someone else should get a try.
It's terribly cynical, but Sink r8 is simply relaying the tactics pushed by this administration. They have no answer to the unity currently being displayed. They're scared witless right now.
Carl
07-11-2015 | 08:02 AM
#34
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
This vote is a repudiation of everything Moak. His doctrine of engagement through appeasement has been thoroughly discredited.
The company took. ALPA gave. That's Moak's legacy.
Send his protégés back to the line.
The company took. ALPA gave. That's Moak's legacy.
Send his protégés back to the line.
07-11-2015 | 08:03 AM
#35
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 596
Likes: 1
From: fifi flyer
This is exactly right. Sink r8 is simply trying to stop the mounting unified voice that is getting rooted in social media. Sink r8 wants to go back to an era where the MEC administration controls the message and the media. Sink r8 wants to keep us divided up into parochial local councils because a divided group is easier to control.
It's terribly cynical, but Sink r8 is simply relaying the tactics pushed by this administration. They have no answer to the unity currently being displayed. They're scared witless right now.
Carl
It's terribly cynical, but Sink r8 is simply relaying the tactics pushed by this administration. They have no answer to the unity currently being displayed. They're scared witless right now.
Carl
But surprisingly, social media and other independent forums like APC and chitchat have proven even more powerful and unifying than the old DALPA forum.
07-11-2015 | 08:03 AM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 0
From: Left
I have a cousin who is a Delta pilot plus several neighbors who are Delta pilots and I got the full story from several sides - both for and against. From an outsider's perspective this is the worst case of union representation I have ever seen. If I were a Delta pilot, I would do whatever is necessary to replace those incompetent, arrogant MEC members. Does Jimmy Hoffa pull the strings there?
What I find to be outrageous is how they tried to speed this thing through without really listening to their members. The rushing to settle the issue was ridiculous! IMO, anything less than full replacement of the MEC with fresh faces would be disappointing and counterproductive.
What I find to be outrageous is how they tried to speed this thing through without really listening to their members. The rushing to settle the issue was ridiculous! IMO, anything less than full replacement of the MEC with fresh faces would be disappointing and counterproductive.
07-11-2015 | 08:11 AM
#37
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
This is exactly right. Sink r8 is simply trying to stop the mounting unified voice that is getting rooted in social media. Sink r8 wants to go back to an era where the MEC administration controls the message and the media. Sink r8 wants to keep us divided up into parochial local councils because a divided group is easier to control.
It's terribly cynical, but Sink r8 is simply relaying the tactics pushed by this administration. They have no answer to the unity currently being displayed. They're scared witless right now.
Carl
It's terribly cynical, but Sink r8 is simply relaying the tactics pushed by this administration. They have no answer to the unity currently being displayed. They're scared witless right now.
Carl
We shouldn't be approaching this like we are the NVA storming the us embassy.
We should be approaching this like coaches putting together winning teams in the nfl draft.
07-11-2015 | 08:21 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
I'm waiting to see how this shakes out. I don't expect a plan from individual no voters, but the norganizers have the floor, and I expect them to use it very wisely. They've been working on their message since before the TA was reached. Pre-supposing the outcomes of recalls isn't really a plan. If there are three good candidates that want to step up in NYC, I'll be happy to consider them. In the meantime, it's true, I have a special disdain for politicians who hide among us, and start a campaign that's 0% platform, 100% hostility. "Go to he!!" Isn't the most inspiring slogan I've ever seen.
07-11-2015 | 08:27 AM
#39
Bus driver
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 894
Likes: 9
You had me at "it".
I'm waiting to see how this shakes out. I don't expect a plan from individual no voters, but the norganizers have the floor, and I expect them to use it very wisely. They've been working on their message since before the TA was reached. Pre-supposing the outcomes of recalls isn't really a plan. If there are three good candidates that want to step up in NYC, I'll be happy to consider them. In the meantime, it's true, I have a special disdain for politicians who hide among us, and start a campaign that's 0% platform, 100% hostility. "Go to he!!" Isn't the most inspiring slogan I've ever seen.
I'm waiting to see how this shakes out. I don't expect a plan from individual no voters, but the norganizers have the floor, and I expect them to use it very wisely. They've been working on their message since before the TA was reached. Pre-supposing the outcomes of recalls isn't really a plan. If there are three good candidates that want to step up in NYC, I'll be happy to consider them. In the meantime, it's true, I have a special disdain for politicians who hide among us, and start a campaign that's 0% platform, 100% hostility. "Go to he!!" Isn't the most inspiring slogan I've ever seen.
07-11-2015 | 08:29 AM
#40
Banned
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 0
From: 7th green
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