Packrat

Do you know the advice the National guys gave your MEC? If not, then how can you make that statement? Your MEC agreed to those terms. But you have no idea if the National guys were on board.

I've seen MECs ignore National's recommendations and the pilot group subsequently presented with a bad TA.

Your problem is your NC and MEC, not National. National will sign off on any contract an MEC agrees to and ratifies. I know one place that actually had a "secret" no-strike clause in their contract. National signed off on it but insisted it not be printed in the contract. That agreement was held in the MEC office. But it was there and everyone knew about it.

Mesabah

Okay, I know, but wouldn't a third party set of negotiators solve that issue?

Check Essential

WRONG!

The "pros" from National gave speeches at the MEC meeting where this thing got ratified.
I was there and listened to all of it. Two of their "representation specialists" and one lawyer from Cohen, Weiss and Simon.

They fully endorsed the "this is the best deal you can get" line.
They sat next to our negotiators through this whole process.
They gave a long presentation on how fabulous this TA was.
They spent over an hour warning our MEC not to turn down this TA.

If anything, they were the source of the fear tactics used in the sales job.

They are a big part of the problem. They are definitely not the solution.

They represent ALPA. They do NOT represent pilots. There's a big difference.

Think about it. They love payrates. Because that means dues.
They don't care one lick about work rules or manning or sick leave or scope. It showed in their pleas to pass this deal.

Packrat

You obviously have no idea how the NC works. On every contract, National makes the experts available to the NC. They analyze the Company financials and make recommendations to the NC/MEC as to the best way for the NC to proceed.

They're there throughout the process.

IF your NC and MEC listen to them, you usually do pretty well. If your NC and MEC "know better" then you're going to get the shaft. It appears, from the outside, your MEC/NC think they "knew better". How would that change with your "3rd party, professional" negotiators?

You already have them. You just need reps who will listen to them.

Packrat

Of course they did. Once an MEC charts its course, the National boys have to support them. Again, you have no idea what the advice they were giving before the TA was agreed to.

Remember the no-strike clause example? Do you think ALPA National could publicly support such a clause? Of course they couldn't. However, they signed off on the contract it contained as long as the "no-strike" clause remained "secret."

Their support of your aborted TA was just SOP. Heck, they supported AE's 20 year contract didn't they? There you go...

BenderRodriguez

Would those "funds" be invested in a similar style to the old DB plan? I would be interested if I could do it or at least have some control, but I am not sure if it would be a good deal if it were simply dollars put into a "insurance contracts" kind of vehicle as it would get eaten into by inflation. I dunno. Just spitballin, but there might be something there.

newKnow

Don't hang up, B. I'm not a finincial, or retirement expert, like you.

I don't know the answer to your question, but are you suggesting there is nothing that can be done to improve our retirement plan?

BenderRodriguez

No, not at all, but since we have a nanny state federal gubbamint that limits the amount we can put into retirement accounts, we, as highly compensated individuals (and we are contrary to what some on here think) hit those limits quite often. We will have many FOs now that hit those limits as well, and many before you and I hit them. its (You and I should down bid and we could fly Frankfurt GSs) I am just wondering what other ways we could get retirement benefits that are tax sheltered or deferred. I can't think of any myself, and was posing the question to see if anybody else could come up with some.

newKnow

I agree. The results of this vote prove our union leadership is out of touch with its membership. The reaction to the TA that I saw from most of the pilots I spoke with indicate that most of us have no confidence in them either.

That TA was horrendous.

They cannot be the ones in charge as we move forward.

Check Essential

They could lower (or eliminate) our medical premiums.

They could reimburse us a lot more per diem.

Not specifically "retirement", but both of those would be non-taxable.