Arbitrators are paid to arbitrate. Why on earth would you think they'd turn away work?

Collective memory? So what.

The only reason not to file is because AA and UAL rates are a given minimum baseline in any future TA.

A couple of points here:

I never mentioned a grievance - I said Chairman Malone "Asked the lawyers to look at it." Maybe we should wait until we see what they actually recommend.

Second - the fact that you think it is not even a "gray area" and I don't disagree with you here, shows how poorly some of contractual language is and has been. This is the exact scenario in which 3B4 was supposed to kick in, and yet the company side steps it without breaking stride. :cool: Seems to me like another reason for professional negotiators and/or a new legal team.

I have sent in DPA cards in the past and I am not sure how I would actually vote if they reach their numbers but stuff like this makes me shake my head.

DALPA touts how great they are with every TA. Yet when it comes time for the contradict to kick in we find it isn't worth the paper that its written on.

Makes me wonder what "Great items" on TA-15 would have produced the same results if we had been foolish enough to have voted yes.

Scoop

I"m sure an arbitrator would be more offended that you would think that they would hold a grudge, rather than rule on every issue, honestly and professionally.

He was just taking his daily A@@wipe jab at his coworkers. Par for the course...

sailing.....your concern for the wasting of our dues money on unproductive and frivolous adventures is touching.

even if it is about 30 years late.

Oh yes. We are so dumb for turning down the TA and management is so smart.

It's like it bothers him so much that he voted on the TA the same way as the likes of Carl and Purple that he feels the need to make up for it.

Scoop, step back from the keyboard bro. Your arguments are normally well thought out and expressed. If you step outside the us versus management rhetoric and take an outsiders view you might gain a little insight. Do you think this management team just decided to shaft the pilots because you turned down the TA ? Or, maybe this raise to the general employees was part of a compensation plan that included what they were willing to pay the pilots and what they were going to give the general employees to keep unions off property and keep them at the top of comparable companies. When the majority turned down the TA the company proceeded with their compensation plan which had been laid out months before albeit without the pilots. This is just business.
I'm sure Delta is fine with the status qou, they are making record profits every quarter and probably will continue doing so through next year. Just like you've stated you're happy with TA2012 I think Delta is too.
My opinions only as an informed outsider; Outside of mediation/ strike release I see little chance of Delta offering more money, they will rearrange the deck chairs when they/DALPA re-engage. Remember, they are trying to keep unions off property and if they reward you with big pay increases the other employees are going to take notice and vote accordingly.
This is a macro view and there are some issues that might help like pilot shortages at the commuters, some kind of airplane deal that requires DALPA support or maybe an unseen merger.
I guess what I'm getting at is Delta has a plan and they are executing it, it is a business plan not based on emotion but a very well thought out strategy with multiple contingencies. I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, I think the pilots can succeed but it is going to take time, planning and above all unity. The strike vote is going to have to be 95% to get their attention.
I hope I'm wrong on my assessments. Good luck

I don't disagree with anything you say here. Any gains we achieve over the failed TA will not be easy and may take a long time.

Nevertheless, I think it is the best course of action in the long run.

Scoop

Sailing cannot help but cheerlead for the company and ALPA. Even factual negative comments will get a spin from him. YEAH THEM!

Scared of your own shadow much?
It's a status quo issue.
When do you retire, again?