New TA
10-27-2015 | 07:12 PM
#151
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
=index
The concern of the pilot group is having to "prove" that they were sick. The mechanisms in place currently are subtle, sometimes outright overt, harassment to make pilots think twice about calling in sick---so as to avoid the hassle.
Perhaps some of that is going on right now, despite your protestations that it's not.
The concern of the pilot group is having to "prove" that they were sick. The mechanisms in place currently are subtle, sometimes outright overt, harassment to make pilots think twice about calling in sick---so as to avoid the hassle.
Perhaps some of that is going on right now, despite your protestations that it's not.
You're spot on with the goal.
10-28-2015 | 04:06 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
10-28-2015 | 04:15 AM
#154
Wind the clock beoch
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
How about explaining this "fact" Mr. Obtuse...
10-28-2015 | 04:34 AM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
Let's see, I posted that I suspect the company feels the above. Not sure how the term I suspect becomes a fact. I am aware however of several situations most dealing with mental health where the company had to get involved. They did not go looking to do that but events forced their hand.
In at least one case where I know the individual involved the company used his medical records to have the pilot back flying quickly and paid him in full. Divorces can be nasty things is all I will add to the details.
In at least one case where I know the individual involved the company used his medical records to have the pilot back flying quickly and paid him in full. Divorces can be nasty things is all I will add to the details.
10-28-2015 | 04:58 AM
#156
Wind the clock beoch
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Let's see, I posted that I suspect the company feels the above. Not sure how the term I suspect becomes a fact. I am aware however of several situations most dealing with mental health where the company had to get involved. They did not go looking to do that but events forced their hand.
In at least one case where I know the individual involved the company used his medical records to have the pilot back flying quickly and paid him in full. Divorces can be nasty things is all I will add to the details.
In at least one case where I know the individual involved the company used his medical records to have the pilot back flying quickly and paid him in full. Divorces can be nasty things is all I will add to the details.
I acknowledged that there have been rare infrequent uses of the company wading into a pilot's medical records because of concerns about a pilot's competency to operate an aircraft. Let's put that to bed now because that is NOT THE ISSUE THAT HAS PILOTS CONCERNED.
It's the opposite situation...pilot calls in sick because he can't comply with FAR 61.53 (see requirements below), then gets a form e-mail from Flight Ops regarding the pilot's obligations while out on sick leave, sometimes followed up with a "fireside chat" with the friendly CPO, under the auspices of just "checking to make sure said pilot is "okay," and to make sure said pilot understands that he knows he "has to call in well once he's well" (gee, thanks for that nugget...who woulda thunk that?), and to make sure said SICK pilot is comforted by knowing that the CPO can answer all of said pilot's questions about use of sick leave...blah blah blah. It's similar to the multiple hoops a pilot must jump through when refusing to extend. It's all scripted to be very "friendly" but the message is clear. We're watching you. We're documenting everything. We're here to "help."
FAR 61.53: Prohibition on Operations During Medical Deficiency
- Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, a person who holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required flight crewmember while that person:
-
- Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation; or
- Is taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in the person being unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation.
10-28-2015 | 05:50 AM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,877
Likes: 194
sailing,
I acknowledged that there have been rare infrequent uses of the company wading into a pilot's medical records because of concerns about a pilot's competency to operate an aircraft. Let's put that to bed now because that is NOT THE ISSUE THAT HAS PILOTS CONCERNED.
It's the opposite situation...pilot calls in sick because he can't comply with FAR 61.53 (see requirements below), then gets a form e-mail from Flight Ops regarding the pilot's obligations while out on sick leave, sometimes followed up with a "fireside chat" with the friendly CPO, under the auspices of just "checking to make sure said pilot is "okay," and to make sure said pilot understands that he knows he "has to call in well once he's well" (gee, thanks for that nugget...who woulda thunk that?), and to make sure said SICK pilot is comforted by knowing that the CPO can answer all of said pilot's questions about use of sick leave...blah blah blah. It's similar to the multiple hoops a pilot must jump through when refusing to extend. It's all scripted to be very "friendly" but the message is clear. We're watching you. We're documenting everything. We're here to "help."
FAR 61.53: Prohibition on Operations During Medical Deficiency
I acknowledged that there have been rare infrequent uses of the company wading into a pilot's medical records because of concerns about a pilot's competency to operate an aircraft. Let's put that to bed now because that is NOT THE ISSUE THAT HAS PILOTS CONCERNED.
It's the opposite situation...pilot calls in sick because he can't comply with FAR 61.53 (see requirements below), then gets a form e-mail from Flight Ops regarding the pilot's obligations while out on sick leave, sometimes followed up with a "fireside chat" with the friendly CPO, under the auspices of just "checking to make sure said pilot is "okay," and to make sure said pilot understands that he knows he "has to call in well once he's well" (gee, thanks for that nugget...who woulda thunk that?), and to make sure said SICK pilot is comforted by knowing that the CPO can answer all of said pilot's questions about use of sick leave...blah blah blah. It's similar to the multiple hoops a pilot must jump through when refusing to extend. It's all scripted to be very "friendly" but the message is clear. We're watching you. We're documenting everything. We're here to "help."
FAR 61.53: Prohibition on Operations During Medical Deficiency
- Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, a person who holds a current medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required flight crewmember while that person:
-
- Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation; or
- Is taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in the person being unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation.
I have refused extensions with a ACARS message. The only hoop was a 2 minute call with the duty pilot. I have refused to go do to fatigue twice in the the last few years before legally or contractually timed out. First one never heard a word about it. Second one another 2 minute phone call.
I have a friend who works at UPS. His stories are the definition of harassment. Delta not so much.
10-28-2015 | 06:03 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
From: Power top
Defending more concessions in any section is not going to fly with any pilot on the property. You seem to not "get it". I admire your resolve.
Let management fix their perceived problems, we need to defend or improve all sections in this historic time. And we have to assess risk, the risk of management using any measure in the contract to work against us. I admit, management has not been punitive in the past, but we must protect all the pilots.
Let management fix their perceived problems, we need to defend or improve all sections in this historic time. And we have to assess risk, the risk of management using any measure in the contract to work against us. I admit, management has not been punitive in the past, but we must protect all the pilots.
10-28-2015 | 06:05 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: undefined
The option for medical release has been in the contracts longer then the most senior pilot working. I have never heard of a single instance of the company abusing it. I suspect the company feels they have some legal obligation to insure fitness of its pilot group. The only use of records I am aware of is the company trying to assist pilots in getting a medical reinstated.
What I find interesting is the majority of pilots believe the medical release requirement originated with his TA and some have attempted to portray it as so.
What I find interesting is the majority of pilots believe the medical release requirement originated with his TA and some have attempted to portray it as so.
I do realize that the medical release term is in the Delta PWA (and predates the POS15), but it needs to be gone.
Focus Plus may or may not be the best way to achieve the gains we all desire. The end result will have to stand on its own merits, or it will be voted down again. There was so much wrong with that TA that the sick leave issues were just one reason it was voted down.
I have talked to a lot of my fellow crew members. Some have said that if they just fix this or that it would be acceptable to them. I have talked to some yes voters that voted yes because they liked the pay, and they didn't think voting no would make a difference. They believe differently now. I want with all my being to be presented with a TA that is can easily say that I stand behind. It should be a no brainier. I am worried that we will negotiate to 50%+1
10-28-2015 | 06:29 AM
#160
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
The interesting thing is I have never personally known anyone harassed over sick leave except one person who openly bragged he never left a minute unused.
I have refused extensions with a ACARS message. The only hoop was a 2 minute call with the duty pilot. I have refused to go do to fatigue twice in the the last few years before legally or contractually timed out. First one never heard a word about it. Second one another 2 minute phone call.
I have a friend who works at UPS. His stories are the definition of harassment. Delta not so much.
I have refused extensions with a ACARS message. The only hoop was a 2 minute call with the duty pilot. I have refused to go do to fatigue twice in the the last few years before legally or contractually timed out. First one never heard a word about it. Second one another 2 minute phone call.
I have a friend who works at UPS. His stories are the definition of harassment. Delta not so much.
It sounds like we currently have a pretty good sick leave policy. We should think hard and long, no make that very long and very hard before agreeing to any changes whatsoever.
Scoop
