There are so many herk guys my heads going to explode keeping them straight.

 

The whole point is we should be able to better AA pay rates without touching profit sharing. Say we do exactly that and then we monetize 5% profit sharing. We now have a 5% premium on straight pay rates plus the left over PS. Fast forward to next contract cycle, AA betters our pay rates by a percentage point or two then we re-enter negotiations. We should be able to maintain the 5+ percent advantage we had because of the PS swap from the contract before or we have just lost the advantage of keeping it separate.

I see your point but I think keeping them separate will lead to more money in our pockets in the long run. The caveat to this is we HAVE to be able to negotiate rates similar to AA without touching PS.

I've been beating this drum for a while now.

Denny

 

You're not going to convince some people that you don't have to give something up for a pay raise. They attach that any gain must be accompanied by a loss. It's been indoctrinated. It's now a given, a way of life.

Even if your boss has increased his compensation by 700% and you're down by 20% plus TVM of that loss. You're pension is backed by the PBGC. Social Security is going broke. Medical premiums will sap your retirement savings.

We can't count on some of these pilots to walk.

 

I don't think that any gain "must" be accompanied by a loss. But there are two sides to any negotiations. I'm also happy with DALPA for a lot of stuff on the "perimeter" of the contract that they've fixed, even though the perpetually ****ed off class doesn't acknowledge it... or more likely just hasn't a clue.

For example this month I'm on reserve and have flown two separate 3-day trips that had just one leg of less than an hour, and that was my entire day. Both trips were worth 15.45 and both would have been worth 12 hrs and change for decades! Thanks to our negotiators securing the ADG and also applying for it to reserves, my (busy) month paid 88 hrs instead of the reserve guarantee of 80 that I would have gotten just a few years ago.

Concessions aren't always a one way street either Don't you think that the company has their guys saying "***? Two years ago we would have paid this guy 80 hrs and now we're paying him 88 for the same flying. What knucklehead negotiated that for the company?"

 

Didn't we just get a UAL/AMR average pay increase in April? With 3B4, we would have had the same rates anyways, without the 2012 Profit Sharing give back.

Not only did Failed TA2015 give away more profit sharing, it watered down the PTIX to reduce further PS on top of the percentage give back... and then, wait for it..... it would have added PS to 3B4 comps making 3B4 virtually worthless.

Don't give up profit sharing, don't water down profit sharing, don't water down 3B4.

 

Do you think we will ever have another chance to get profit sharing? This is a percentage of profit that can increase exponentially, this is not the type of benefit labor is ever awarded. The only reason we have it now is because they were willing to give it when it wasn't worth anything.

Delta Air Lines: Prudent Use Of The Cash Flow Will Lead To Upside - Delta Air Lines, Inc. (NYSEAL) | Seeking Alpha

This profit sharing puts you at the front of the line, in front of management and ownership.

 

You forget a very key point. Both the AMR and UAL rates were a product of our contract in 2012. Without that contract it's doubtful those rates would have existed in 2015.

 

Irrelevant

 

Keep beating it, so to speak, Denny. I will dance to it.

 

^^^^^^This man gets it.