Possibly, but let's keep it on topic. I am curious how many posts will occur before even one person puts up some "YES" vote numbers and sick leave demands. I have been seeking this answer for 6 months without a single answer.

I MUST assume that if someone voted NO that they had in mind what would cause them to vote YES. What is the answer to that?

How much were the concessions worth that you were willing to give away for that meager raise? You guys who keep touting the money lost always fail to figure in the concessions. Hence you were in the minority. The rest of us seem to be better at math.

There absolutely IS an answer. What package including QOL, sick, retirement and pay increases would garner a YES vote from you? You should be able to type those answers in 2 minutes.

Again, you haven't "lost" anything. If so, you conveniently ignore what you were about to lose.

Therein lies the problem with counting your chickens before they hatch; especially when they're sitting in a nest with a bunch of alligator eggs. When those hatch, not only will they eat all of your chickens, they'll come after you!

Sailing, even for you, that statement is beyond the pale. Were you furloughed as a pilot from Delta? Were those pilots offered jobs at our subsidiaries? You more than anyone should be aware that the pilots sacrificed more than any other group. The amount of managers and VP's has increased tenfold here at Delta, the advancement opportunities for those folks has outpaced the stagnation that we've seen in our department. And finally, how many of the other employees make DL a career compared to the pilot group? You can say what you want, but the pilots have been left out in the cold with respect to what we had and what we gave up. Not even close.

All our furloughed pilots are back. Those ground employee jobs are gone forever. A slight difference.

LOL, I hear ya...but we DID lose that because it was on the table waiting for a box to be checked. If it was a fictitious then I agree with you. All these side conversations are likely NEVER going to elicit a response to my original question. I am sure we will be off down a tangent LONG before anyone addresses the original question.

We all have our own numbers and as a group, the NC has that info via the pre TA survey. The 65% no vote on NA15 substantiated that data, as the contract was short of the survey results and it was voted down. Personally, I have enough patience to wait 2-3 years for what I consider a fair contract. During that time, I will be saving every profit sharing check and building my personal strike fund.


In a nutshell, here is your answer

RESTORATION of pay rates to pre bankruptcy rates.
Leave all concessions out of our work rules.
RESTORATION of the value of vacation.
Adjust per diem to GSA published rates
RESTORATION of pay for training events.
The company pays for training inefficiency associated with a diverse fleet.


Back to the operating room, I have a rocket waiting...

All our furloughed pilots are back. Those ground employee jobs are gone forever. A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE
If however we as pilots feel that the ground employees and F/A's should be our benchmark then let's go to management and demand the same relative standard of pay and productivity relative to the competition the ground employees are getting. We will have a contract done in days and a incredibly happy management team.

10% DOS, 5% in each of the out years - minimum, I would prefer if they matched FedEx and took a hard look at SWA 737 rates and extrapolate for our long haul ops.

Profit Sharing - keep your hands off it. If it must be monetized, it comes AFTER any raise not in lieu of one. No more "cost neutral" contracts.

Sick leave - leave it alone, add in the gains from TA15 (FAA leave and disability gains)

Retirement - 1% more for each year of the contract

QOL - training, vacation and Min day should all be 6 hours. If I do anything for the company, I get 6.

There are other things and here is where I'll diverge from others, I can be paid like the execs - stock, options etc to keep if from the other employee groups and WS.

Now the tough part, how to get it. We've done the first item, let them know their offer wasn't good enough but they have to realize what we do for the operation to keep them reliable and on time - on the base visit video Network says they view that as a product. Further we'll need to start being aggressive - start informational ads and perhaps picketing. We also can't allow the company to keep spinning things like the FedEx TA without a response. Where was our outraged answer to Mr Anderson's threat of 3 July?