New TA
10-23-2015, 09:11 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
Vacation and training = minimum day pay+credit. No more large RJs. Hands off PS. Minimum 14% DOS for starters plus retro. 401 contribution at DOS. No increase in ALV.
Just a few off the top of my head
Just a few off the top of my head
10-23-2015, 09:19 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by pileit
There absolutely IS an answer. What package including QOL, sick, retirement and pay increases would garner a YES vote from you? You should be able to type those answers in 2 minutes.
10-23-2015, 10:45 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: systems analyst
Posts: 757
Originally Posted by pileit
In the time it took you to be sarcastic & condescending you could have typed a reply to the question instead. How about just facts and answers instead of sarcasm. You are making my point for me. So...you don't have an answer I take it?
10-23-2015, 11:21 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
Originally Posted by pileit
Again, restoration is MY goal too. But we didn't have profit sharing back in C2K as well as a number of other items. What will it take today including profit sharing to be considered "restoration"?
I am not suggesting rushing it at all...I also want to get it right. BUT since July 1st I have lost $8k plus retirement of 15% on that (which is fine if a MUCH better deal is on the way).
The question continues to be (referring to your last sentence) How much time? And what % constitutes "doing it right"? Those are very nebulous goals. I don't know how you meet those goals without numbers attached to them...thanks.
I am not suggesting rushing it at all...I also want to get it right. BUT since July 1st I have lost $8k plus retirement of 15% on that (which is fine if a MUCH better deal is on the way).
The question continues to be (referring to your last sentence) How much time? And what % constitutes "doing it right"? Those are very nebulous goals. I don't know how you meet those goals without numbers attached to them...thanks.
10-23-2015, 12:08 PM
#37
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
There is a whole parade of new screen names here trying to insult, beg, or trick us into folding up.
Make no mistake, they're the same old guard clowns we're trying hard to remove from ALPA work forever.
Make no mistake, they're the same old guard clowns we're trying hard to remove from ALPA work forever.
10-23-2015, 12:09 PM
#38
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,865
Originally Posted by pileit
Possibly, but let's keep it on topic. I am curious how many posts will occur before even one person puts up some "YES" vote numbers and sick leave demands. I have been seeking this answer for 6 months without a single answer.
I MUST assume that if someone voted NO that they had in mind what would cause them to vote YES. What is the answer to that?
I MUST assume that if someone voted NO that they had in mind what would cause them to vote YES. What is the answer to that?
First Off welcome to APC.
As you said - there are 8000+ "No votes" so probably 8000 different answers. Do you really care what any individual wants or are you just Trolling?
There is no consensus other than TA-15 was a total fail.
Additionally, I missed the part on the TA where if we voted no we were required to each individually input a Plan B.
Perhaps our union, which all put a lot of money into, should have had a plan other than we just vote yes.
Scoop
10-23-2015, 01:01 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,022
Preview
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay
No, it wasn't. Do some homework and report back.
It was negotiated along side LOA 51. Its a payback mechanism. It may not say exactly what it was for but it along with 3.B.4. were seeds planted for this very situation.
If you would quit looking in the rearview mirror and chastising people you might have time to turn around and see the pile of cash in the road right in front of you that you are about to plow into. Unless you'd rather yank the wheel and send us into the ditch saving us from the collision with billions.
From 2008.
08-04
August 6, 2008
In this MEC Update, we will discuss the Pilot Shares (equity stake) that were negotiated as part of Letter 19 and review the Profit Sharing Plan which was negotiated as part of Letter 51. While both of these items were negotiated in advance of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement, each represents an important component of pilot compensation.
Profit Sharing
The current Profit Sharing Program was negotiated as part of Letter 51. In Letter 19, the program was modified so that the level at which the profit sharing payout changed from 15 percent to 20 percent of pre-tax income changed from $1.5 billion to $2.5 billion to reflect the larger scale of the merged corporation. The Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement is based on the current Delta Pilot Working Agreement inclusive of Letter 19, so it retains the Profit Sharing Plan as an important component of pilot compensation.
The Profit Sharing Plan is based on Delta’s pre-tax income or “PTIX” for a given calendar year. As defined by the Delta Pilot Working Agreement, PTIX means: § Letter 19, paragraph E.4.
3
4
“ . . . for any calendar year, the Company’s consolidated pre-tax income calculated in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles in the United States and as reported in the Company’s public securities filings but excluding: a) the line item entitled “Reorganization Items, Net” as reported in the statement of income, b) all asset write downs related to long term assets, c) gains or losses with respect to employee equity securities, d) gains or losses with respect to extraordinary, one-time or non-recurring events, and e) expense accrued with respect to the profit sharing plan.”
In layman’s terms, the Profit Sharing Plan uses pre-tax income as a trigger for determining payouts and further restricts the write offs that might otherwise reduce the pre-tax income metric resulting in a “clean,” not easily manipulated dollar value from which to determine profit sharing payouts.
Figure 2 shows a summation of the relevant PWA language as modified by Letter 19.
Profit Sharing Plan Eligibility Pilot and non-pilot employees of the Company generally, except for management employees covered by incentive compensation plans. PTIX Levels % of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% Payout Calculation Over $2.5 billion 20.0% Program Year Calendar year.
Basis of Individual Award
Individual employee’s annual compensation in the year in which the PTIX was earned as a percentage of total annual compensation for that year for all eligible employees. The Association will have the right to review the methodology and calculation of awards prior to such awards.
Timing of Payment
Award to be paid within 30 calendar days after the date on which the Company’s annual audited consolidated financial statements are released (typically, March 15th). Pensionable Yes Type of payment Cash Impact of Termination of Employment A former pilot whose employment has been severed for any reason, including retirement, resignation or termination for any reason, will receive, at the same time as pilots, an award based on his annual compensation for the period in which he earned such compensation, as will the estate or designated beneficiary of a deceased pilot who earned such compensation. -Figure 2-
It is easy, using the Payout Calculation row in Figure 2, to determine the total profit sharing amount or pool that the company will provide to all employees once PTIX is determined at year’s end. To determine an individual pilot’s profit sharing payout, we need to know his eligible annual compensation in the year in which the PTIX was earned and the total annual compensation for that year for all eligible employees. We would then multiply the profit sharing pool by the ratio of the pilot’s eligible compensation to the eligible compensation of all profit sharing participants to determine the pilot’s individual profit sharing amount. Put in simpler terms, every pilot will receive a pro rata amount of the total profit sharing pool based on his eligible earnings in the year PTIX was earned.
Since it is not possible to definitively determine how many employees will participate in the fixed amount of profit sharing or what the eligible earnings for those tens of thousands of employees will be in a given year until the year is over, it is difficult to provide an answer to the question, “If Delta makes $X billion in pre-tax income, how much will I receive in profit sharing?”
That said, the following is provided as a non-precise example of how profit sharing could work in a given year. In this example, assume Delta earned a PTIX of $1.5 billion.
Delta would provide employees with total profit sharing of $225 million ($1.5B x 15% = $225 million). As a rough rule-of-thumb, pilot payroll represents approximately one-third of the company’s total payroll. Using that figure in this example, the pilot portion of profit sharing would be one-third of $225 million, or $75 million.
Assume that in the merged corporation, there are 12,000 pilots and that the average pilot’s earnings in this example year are $137,000. The average profit sharing payout in this example would be $6,250 ($75M ÷ 12,000 = $6,250) per pilot. For purposes of this Update, we will consider a hypothetical pilot who earned $100,000. This hypothetical pilot would receive a profit sharing payout of 100/137ths of the average, or $4,562 as shown in Figure 3. Note that this amount represents a profit sharing payout of 4.562 percent of eligible earnings, and in this example the company would provide the same 4.562 percent profit sharing payout to all eligible employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplay
No, it wasn't. Do some homework and report back.
It was negotiated along side LOA 51. Its a payback mechanism. It may not say exactly what it was for but it along with 3.B.4. were seeds planted for this very situation.
If you would quit looking in the rearview mirror and chastising people you might have time to turn around and see the pile of cash in the road right in front of you that you are about to plow into. Unless you'd rather yank the wheel and send us into the ditch saving us from the collision with billions.
From 2008.
08-04
August 6, 2008
In this MEC Update, we will discuss the Pilot Shares (equity stake) that were negotiated as part of Letter 19 and review the Profit Sharing Plan which was negotiated as part of Letter 51. While both of these items were negotiated in advance of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement, each represents an important component of pilot compensation.
Profit Sharing
The current Profit Sharing Program was negotiated as part of Letter 51. In Letter 19, the program was modified so that the level at which the profit sharing payout changed from 15 percent to 20 percent of pre-tax income changed from $1.5 billion to $2.5 billion to reflect the larger scale of the merged corporation. The Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement is based on the current Delta Pilot Working Agreement inclusive of Letter 19, so it retains the Profit Sharing Plan as an important component of pilot compensation.
The Profit Sharing Plan is based on Delta’s pre-tax income or “PTIX” for a given calendar year. As defined by the Delta Pilot Working Agreement, PTIX means: § Letter 19, paragraph E.4.
3
4
“ . . . for any calendar year, the Company’s consolidated pre-tax income calculated in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles in the United States and as reported in the Company’s public securities filings but excluding: a) the line item entitled “Reorganization Items, Net” as reported in the statement of income, b) all asset write downs related to long term assets, c) gains or losses with respect to employee equity securities, d) gains or losses with respect to extraordinary, one-time or non-recurring events, and e) expense accrued with respect to the profit sharing plan.”
In layman’s terms, the Profit Sharing Plan uses pre-tax income as a trigger for determining payouts and further restricts the write offs that might otherwise reduce the pre-tax income metric resulting in a “clean,” not easily manipulated dollar value from which to determine profit sharing payouts.
Figure 2 shows a summation of the relevant PWA language as modified by Letter 19.
Profit Sharing Plan Eligibility Pilot and non-pilot employees of the Company generally, except for management employees covered by incentive compensation plans. PTIX Levels % of PTIX Paid under Program $0 to $2.5 billion 15.0% Payout Calculation Over $2.5 billion 20.0% Program Year Calendar year.
Basis of Individual Award
Individual employee’s annual compensation in the year in which the PTIX was earned as a percentage of total annual compensation for that year for all eligible employees. The Association will have the right to review the methodology and calculation of awards prior to such awards.
Timing of Payment
Award to be paid within 30 calendar days after the date on which the Company’s annual audited consolidated financial statements are released (typically, March 15th). Pensionable Yes Type of payment Cash Impact of Termination of Employment A former pilot whose employment has been severed for any reason, including retirement, resignation or termination for any reason, will receive, at the same time as pilots, an award based on his annual compensation for the period in which he earned such compensation, as will the estate or designated beneficiary of a deceased pilot who earned such compensation. -Figure 2-
It is easy, using the Payout Calculation row in Figure 2, to determine the total profit sharing amount or pool that the company will provide to all employees once PTIX is determined at year’s end. To determine an individual pilot’s profit sharing payout, we need to know his eligible annual compensation in the year in which the PTIX was earned and the total annual compensation for that year for all eligible employees. We would then multiply the profit sharing pool by the ratio of the pilot’s eligible compensation to the eligible compensation of all profit sharing participants to determine the pilot’s individual profit sharing amount. Put in simpler terms, every pilot will receive a pro rata amount of the total profit sharing pool based on his eligible earnings in the year PTIX was earned.
Since it is not possible to definitively determine how many employees will participate in the fixed amount of profit sharing or what the eligible earnings for those tens of thousands of employees will be in a given year until the year is over, it is difficult to provide an answer to the question, “If Delta makes $X billion in pre-tax income, how much will I receive in profit sharing?”
That said, the following is provided as a non-precise example of how profit sharing could work in a given year. In this example, assume Delta earned a PTIX of $1.5 billion.
Delta would provide employees with total profit sharing of $225 million ($1.5B x 15% = $225 million). As a rough rule-of-thumb, pilot payroll represents approximately one-third of the company’s total payroll. Using that figure in this example, the pilot portion of profit sharing would be one-third of $225 million, or $75 million.
Assume that in the merged corporation, there are 12,000 pilots and that the average pilot’s earnings in this example year are $137,000. The average profit sharing payout in this example would be $6,250 ($75M ÷ 12,000 = $6,250) per pilot. For purposes of this Update, we will consider a hypothetical pilot who earned $100,000. This hypothetical pilot would receive a profit sharing payout of 100/137ths of the average, or $4,562 as shown in Figure 3. Note that this amount represents a profit sharing payout of 4.562 percent of eligible earnings, and in this example the company would provide the same 4.562 percent profit sharing payout to all eligible employees.
