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-   -   UAL Deal Effect On 3B4 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/91815-ual-deal-effect-3b4.html)

Army80 11-21-2015 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 2014815)
I've heard that before. It would be an act of war.

Not gonna happen.


They gave them TWO raises in one year to get around our contract. I would not count out the "bonus" thing in the future.

Flamer 11-21-2015 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2014839)
If the UAL 13% number is correct, then that is the value of the raise being circumvented by the Dec. 1 date for the non-con raise. If it were still Apr. 1 then 13% is less than 14.5% and that would apply. Remember you are the best pilots in the industry and should be paid... Yada, yada...

Now we bank raises equal too the non-cons for years to come under C2012, without concessions!

I should prob retake the survey. Need to put higher raises in there. And let me say, mine were much higher than pos15 to start with. And no concessions.

Check Essential 11-21-2015 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 2014815)
I've heard that before. It would be an act of war.

Not gonna happen.

Giving our non-contract people their raise on Dec 1st is already an act of war.

Management is basically poking a stick in our eye.

They better not send out any more memos telling us how great we are and how much they appreciate our operational excellence.

I think a lot of guys are going to be dropping their backpacks on Jan 1st.

PS- I'll be interested to see whether ALPA decides to challenge this as a violation of RLA status quo.
December raises are clearly a break from many years of "past practice". Its just as clear that they're only doing it to circumvent our contract.
We might have a strong case.

Gunfighter 11-21-2015 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2014930)
PS- I'll be interested to see whether ALPA decides to challenge this as a violation of RLA status quo.
December raises are clearly a break from many years of "past practice". Its just as clear that they're only doing it to circumvent our contract.
We might have a strong case.

IF ALPA were to challenge this, they would sign a settlement agreement for pennies on the dollar just like they did for three years of international scope violation.

Check Essential 11-22-2015 04:32 AM


Originally Posted by Gunfighter (Post 2014983)
IF ALPA were to challenge this, they would sign a settlement agreement for pennies on the dollar just like they did for three years of international scope violation.

I'm told the MEC passed a resolution to have the administration investigate whether management is violating the status quo with these December raises.
That's a promising sign.

Hopefully they will get some opinions other than ALPA National lawyers.
If they listen to ALPA National we are screwed.

Schwanker 11-22-2015 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2014930)
Giving our non-contract people their raise on Dec 1st is already an act of war.

Management is basically poking a stick in our eye.

They better not send out any more memos telling us how great we are and how much they appreciate our operational excellence.

I think a lot of guys are going to be dropping their backpacks on Jan 1st.

For Delta's sake, I hope the fuelers, caterering and others who need our prompting to do their job just get it done on there own. At D +3 when ops enquires why you haven't pushed yet, I'm sure they'll love to find out you're still waiting on fuel. The potential exists for an operational meltdown.

GPullR 11-22-2015 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 2014646)
Care to explain where you got your numbers.. as there has been NOTHING put out official with regards to our (UAL) Contract extension?

Just a rumor of 16% for first year.. but unknown if that is on top of the scheduled 3% as of 1 Jan 16, or 13% + the scheduled 3%, or if it's 16% as of 1 Dec 15... etc. {And that's IF the rumors are true}

Amazing how people are already posting opinions of something that still doesn't even exist.
oh, and our current 2016 payrate for 757-2 Capt, 12th yr =
$217.52
x 16% = (+34.80)
New Rate would be $252.32!

However, these are still rumors and alot more info needs to come out besides payrates for me to vote YES.

Always
Motch

Actually it has been confirmed. It is 13% on current rates, plus 3% 1/1/16. This is about 16.4% above current rates. 3% 1/2017 and 2% 1/2018. It also has a Delta me too clause for rates until 2018.

Purple Drank 11-22-2015 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2015053)
I'm told the MEC passed a resolution to have the administration investigate whether management is violating the status quo with these December raises.
That's a promising sign.

Hopefully they will get some opinions other than ALPA National lawyers.
If they listen to ALPA National we are screwed.

The MEC passed a watered-down version.

The original directed that a grievance be filed. Period.

The version that passed directed an investigation and a grievance "if appropriate."

With the MEC still controlled by Moakists (who are now trying to get management jobs since their ALPA prospects are shot), I'm guessing they won't find a grievance to be "appropriate."

As an aside, it's my understanding that several of the outgoing reps were neck deep up RA's butt looking for a new sugar daddy when he spoke at the meeting. Nestor, of course, was no doubt fully engaged.

And why was RA there? What was he talking about? Enough listening to that guy. It's time for action.

DALMD88FO 11-22-2015 09:11 AM

If the United CEO was smart he would have the first raise effective on 1 Dec 15 that way it forces Delta into a 3B4 review for the pilots and doesn't have a cost disadvantage when it comes to pilot pay. That is RA and managements big deal here right? They don't want us to get out of line with the industry in regards to pay.

mikea72580 11-22-2015 11:21 AM

I just emailed my reps about this strategy and I suggest everyone do the same. While I'm not 100% sure this strategy would work, time is of the essence. It's worth looking into.


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