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-   -   UAL Deal Effect On 3B4 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/91815-ual-deal-effect-3b4.html)

tomgoodman 11-22-2015 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 2015156)
If the United CEO was smart he would have the first raise effective on 1 Dec 15 that way it forces Delta into a 3B4 review for the pilots and doesn't have a cost disadvantage when it comes to pilot pay.

That would violate the secret protocols of Conquistadores del Cielo, and bring down scoffs and scorn upon him at their next conclave. :p

Check Essential 11-22-2015 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by mikea72580 (Post 2015218)
I just emailed my reps about this strategy and I suggest everyone do the same. While I'm not 100% sure this strategy would work, time is of the essence. It's worth looking into.

We might have a good shot at winning.
Departures from long established "past practice" is one of the things that usually is found to violate status quo.
Same thing goes for management's recent trick of putting line check airmen on "office duty" for the month and then assigning line checks and IOEs from open time in order to avoid buying off first officers.

We should challenge both of those changes to the status quo.

Hank Kingsley 11-22-2015 02:23 PM

We shouldn't get our knickers in a twist about all of this. While we in the "Delta Family", long term employees, know what the family really is, the public's perception IS different and important.

Our management takes great stock in JD Power, and all the awards scribbled on the side of our airplanes. We have the ultimate the control of that perception. At some point in time, we'll make that control well known if necessary.

Until then, enjoy a better contract than the TA, the profit sharing checks and build unity.

DALMD88FO 11-22-2015 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2015232)
We might have a good shot at winning.
Departures from long established "past practice" is one of the things that usually is found to violate status quo.
Same thing goes for management's recent trick of putting line check airmen on "office duty" for the month and then assigning line checks and IOEs from open time in order to avoid buying off first officers.

We should challenge both of those changes to the status quo.

Is this rumor or verified? I could see them putting some LCA's on office duty for admin tasks but not too many.

Tummy 11-22-2015 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by DALMD88FO (Post 2015322)
Is this rumor or verified? I could see them putting some LCA's on office duty for admin tasks but not too many.

I recently finished IOE and TOE. Every LCA I flew with was on reserve.

Scoop 11-22-2015 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by Tummy (Post 2015349)
I recently finished IOE and TOE. Every LCA I flew with was on reserve.


What base and equipment?

Scoop

capncrunch 11-22-2015 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2015308)
We shouldn't get our knickers in a twist about all of this. While we in the "Delta Family", long term employees, know what the family really is, the public's perception IS different and important.

Our management takes great stock in JD Power, and all the awards scribbled on the side of our airplanes. We have the ultimate the control of that perception. At some point in time, we'll make that control well known if necessary.

Until then, enjoy a better contract than the TA, the profit sharing checks and build unity.

I disagree. It's time to play hard ball and management is not our friend. Once our reps get that through their skull we will start to do a lot better in negotiations.

It's contract time...we should not be signing LOAs and we should make a stink out of the above situation. It's clear managements timing on the non cons raise was to screw with us and out of the me too clause. We should file a grievance.

Short Bus Drive 11-22-2015 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by GPullR (Post 2015085)
Actually it has been confirmed. It is 13% on current rates, plus 3% 1/1/16. This is about 16.4% above current rates. 3% 1/2017 and 2% 1/2018. It also has a Delta me too clause for rates until 2018.

WHERE is this confirmed?

DeadHead 11-23-2015 01:54 AM


Originally Posted by Army80 (Post 2014858)
They gave them TWO raises in one year to get around our contract. I would not count out the "bonus" thing in the future.


I think I must be missing something here, but how does giving a raise to non-contract employees allow the company to circumnavigate 3B4?

The way I understand it.....The upcoming raise is for our non-contract employees will inversely reduce the profit sharing payout for the pilots as the other groups will now have a larger piece and the timing of the raise in December won't trigger 3B4 this year, but how does a bonus affect us from coming up to new industry standard rates (AMR/UA) in the next year?

Is it a one or another scenario?
Basically if a set percentage raise threshold for our own non-contract employee groups is triggered, then a reassessment of pilot compensation occurs?
OR
Once industry standard rates rise at other legacy carriers, does 3B4 trigger a reassessment of pilot compensation?



Essentially, will our rate reset from our non-contract employee groups supersede a rate reset from industry standard rates?

Hank Kingsley 11-23-2015 05:09 AM

LCA's are bidding reserve and the planners are buying trips for them. Primo trips too. I think they can make more money flying on their X days as well. Can't confirm that. In any event, management is changing the way their management pilots are bidding.

Change in the status quo?


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