Harwood recalled
03-17-2016 | 02:28 PM
#141
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Are you really this dense?... $10 Billion this year... $10 Billion!... That's a 10 with NINE zeros behind it!... (I would say that makes our counter well within the reality of the market!)
I know that's a very big number for you to understand... but give it some thought... You may come to see why we weren't willing to sell our contract for 3% pay increases... DURING THE MOST PROFITABLE TIMES IN HISTORY!
I know that's a very big number for you to understand... but give it some thought... You may come to see why we weren't willing to sell our contract for 3% pay increases... DURING THE MOST PROFITABLE TIMES IN HISTORY!
"....considering the $15 Billion is concessions this pilot group has ALREADY given to Save Delta, and the ONGOING Concessions still in place!!"
03-17-2016 | 02:46 PM
#142
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,356
Likes: 843
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
C2012 with 22% increase in rates. That's 2004 rates plus 4% OR United plus 4% or American plus 5%.
Hardly seems out of the norm for the market.
Maintain profit sharing and no concessions just as United did.
When you say it out loud it seems very reasonable or maybe too reasonable but we are trying to get a deal so this is as generous as it gets.
My new favorite phrase is "my negotiating committee and MEC speak for me." I haven't been able to say that in a loooooooong time.
If the market were a free market I would be inclined to give credibility to that market argument. We would be paid a lot more. Since we are constrained by the RLA and the seniority structure, I see the new DALPA position as a serious offer to get a deal done.
76drvr YMMV BIDGAS 'cause it's/you're irrelevant now.
Hardly seems out of the norm for the market.
Maintain profit sharing and no concessions just as United did.
When you say it out loud it seems very reasonable or maybe too reasonable but we are trying to get a deal so this is as generous as it gets.
My new favorite phrase is "my negotiating committee and MEC speak for me." I haven't been able to say that in a loooooooong time.
If the market were a free market I would be inclined to give credibility to that market argument. We would be paid a lot more. Since we are constrained by the RLA and the seniority structure, I see the new DALPA position as a serious offer to get a deal done.
76drvr YMMV BIDGAS 'cause it's/you're irrelevant now.
03-17-2016 | 06:15 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 107
From: Road construction signholder
No concessions like United did? Care to rethink that? Oh sure their recent two year deal was a pay-only deal (one I would have voted for were I a UAL pilot) but as usual, they "punted" so that the DAL pilots could do all the real work and heavy lifting, like we have for over a decade.
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
03-17-2016 | 06:24 PM
#144
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,356
Likes: 843
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
No concessions like United did? Care to rethink that? Oh sure their recent two year deal was a pay-only deal (one I would have voted for were I a UAL pilot) but as usual, they "punted" so that the DAL pilots could do all the real work and heavy lifting, like we have for over a decade.
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
Call it a rate only contract if you like. If we took what we have now and applied 22/7/7 it would pass. I think we should get a lot more soft time stuff, but it would pass.
Not only would it pass but we wouldn't have to spend the next 3 years discovering the ways management could exploit the new language loopholes.
(you went all bold, italicized, underlined first, relax and turn up your hearing aid)
03-17-2016 | 07:17 PM
#145
On Reserve
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
No concessions like United did? Care to rethink that? Oh sure their recent two year deal was a pay-only deal (one I would have voted for were I a UAL pilot) but as usual, they "punted" so that the DAL pilots could do all the real work and heavy lifting, like we have for over a decade.
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
But beyond that, many guys were upset about the witholding of 75% of LCA trips from F/O bidding.
United doesn't have that...they withhold 100% of LCA trips! How do you think that would go over here?
No concessions? Oh yes they have...just "prebuilt" in advance. You'll forgive me if I don't look to them as some industry ideal.
(p.s. they actually do have some good features we could emulate, such as premium pay for FDP extensions--I think--but I just wanted to state that they indeed to have concessions in their contract).
Thats incorrect, at UAL the Capts bid are ran first, if you are an LCA you get what your seniority holds , then at the company's discretion they can choose to use up to a max of the 75% (UPA 20-C-2) of the trips that the LCA Capts were awarded in the monthly bidding to then be used for training. Now for the FOs who's bids run after the Capt awards are out, they may not bid those trips that were identified to be used as LCA IOE trips. So FOs are the ones getting hosed over some.
03-18-2016 | 01:53 AM
#146
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Thats incorrect, at UAL the Capts bid are ran first, if you are an LCA you get what your seniority holds , then at the company's discretion they can choose to use up to a max of the 75% (UPA 20-C-2) of the trips that the LCA Capts were awarded in the monthly bidding to then be used for training. Now for the FOs who's bids run after the Capt awards are out, they may not bid those trips that were identified to be used as LCA IOE trips. So FOs are the ones getting hosed over some.
Didn't think so.
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