Not too many RJ pilots would have been hired under today's 1500 hour rule, right?
At the time of all those RJ crashes, most of the pilots involved came out of Gulfstream, which the FAA finally shut down, correct? But it was the FAA who certified Gulfstream in the first place.

Look what I just found, from APC about 2009:

By Allan Chernoff and Laura Dolan

(Ft. Lauderdale, FL) – A recent plane crash in Buffalo New York that killed some 50 people led to questions about the training of those in the cockpit. Those questions led CNN to The Gulfstream Training Academy in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

The Academy promises to train amateur pilots who aspire to fly for a commercial airline in just three months. Students pay $30,000 in tuition and in return, the Academy provides cheap, co-pilots-in-training for Gulfstream International Airlines as they work to increase their hours of flying time.

Gulfstream promotes this part of their training on its website saying, “Gulfstream Training Academy’s First Officer Program offers airline-bound aviation professionals training and experience at an actual airline flying real flights for Gulfstream International Airlines.”

After 12 weeks of training, students serve as First Officers, also known as co-pilots, on Continental Connection flights in Florida and the Bahamas that are operated by Gulfstream International. They get 250 hours of paid on-the-job-training, in addition to the 300 hours they need to qualify for the program.

That’s a red flag for veteran pilots like Pat Moore who find the training tactic questionable. “I don’t know how they can market that as training for these co-pilots while at the same time providing revenue service for paying passengers.”

Most major airlines require co-pilots to have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flight time. That’s three to five times the amount of some students entering Gulfstream’s First Officer program.

“I really don’t want somebody in the right seat that’s just learning, that’s gaining experience, said Moore. “I want an experienced crew. When I buy an airplane ticket, that’s what I’m paying for.” He compares it to going to a medical student for healthcare instead of a doctor.

Continental Airlines told CNN, “We expect our partners to adhere to the highest safety standards.”


But, there have been other recent plane crashes involving pilots from Gulfstream Academy, including a Colgan Air crash that killed 50 people as their plane neared Buffalo, New York. In 2004, two pilots, both graduates of Gulfstream Academy, died near Jefferson City, Missouri after taking a Pinnacle Air plane on a joy ride up to 41,000 feet. They crashed after losing control of the plane. The National Transportation Safety Board blamed “the pilots’ unprofessional behavior” and “poor airmanship.” And in 2003, a pilot of a private airplane, who was still training at Gulfstream, crashed into another plane off the coast of Deerfield Beach, Florida, killing all five people aboard both airplanes.

“The one thing that ties them all together is poor airmanship,” said Captain Jack Casey, Chief Operating Officer of Safety Operating System, an aviation consulting firm. “You cannot build sophisticated airline pilot skills on top of a soft foundation.”

This “pilot factory” as some veteran pilots call the academy, is a quick ticket into the cockpit, which can be very attractive to prospective pilots who want to fly but don’t want to spend years building up enough hours flying private planes.

One pilot, who did not want to be named, finds the process alarming. “The captain has to work as a captain and an instructor. It’s troubling that they don’t disclose it to the public.”

Gulfstream Academy defends its program, telling CNN, “Gulfstream does an outstanding job training commercial pilots, and it has done so for nearly two decades and thousands of pilots in an FAA-approved program. Every U.S. commercial carrier has pilots who’ve received their training here.” Indeed, the Academy says over 1700 pilots trained at Gulfstream found work with commercial airlines.

And, graduates of the program speak highly of it.

Still, long-time pilots warn their career path should not be rushed because they believe that could ultimately compromise safety.

“We’re talking about lives here,” says Pat Moore.” “This is not, ‘Gee, I like flying airplanes, I think it’s cool.’ This is – if I make a mistake and I’m not trained properly or my crew is not trained properly people can be injured or die. And I don’t know if we’re taking this seriously enough in this country anymore.”

On Monday, June 1st, Allan Chernoff will report further on Gulfstream International Airlines. Tune in to American Morning for that story and on cnn.com/amfix for more details.

 

This is exactly the reason for the 1500 hour rule.

 

I believe Gulfstream was founded by a couple of Eastern scabs. Also, I think after being shut down, they started up a new airline, Silver Airlines, flying Saabs around FL. I don't know if it resembles the Gulfstream program or not...just saying.

 

Actually, the 1500 hour rule was "created" by an act of Congress in 2010 before Moak was President through an Aviation Rulemaking Committee. ALPA was a large part of that ARC but I assure you, the President has little to do with the details of what the ARC does in their rulemaking process.

The rules were then released in 2013.

 

And just to be even more clear, ice had nothing to do with the Colgan crash.


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If he was so right on the international threat why do they keep allowing more and more JVs? Changing from EASKs to BH? Allowing our international partners to feed Delta's growing domestic fleet while shrinking the international side.

I think the reason it seems like DALPA has done better is we have had an airline that was run better than United for awhile, that will probably change once Anderson retires. We were able to trade pay rates for work rules and profit sharing.

 

I was referring to international threats like Norwegian (foreign flagging) and ME3 carriers in which Moak was instrumental in partnering with airline managements in lobbying against the unfair international trade practices.

I agree that the grievance settlement WRT to DAL's violation of international scope was completely mishandled and that those scope agreements need to ensure US carriers' fair share of the flying is protected.

My point is that Lee Moak provided tremendous leadership especially as ALPA President in the wake of John Prater's stint. His partnership with management enhanced the battle against unfair foreign competition and helped keep Delta pilots' compensation at the top of the industry. The relationship became too cozy with the recent TA and the Delta pilots were right to vote no and demand a change. But let's not pretend that DALPA has not done a lot of good for pilots and ALPA.

 

Those are some very rosy glasses you're looking through. Might want take them off, your hindsight is foggy.

 

The pertinent question is not one of the 'good' (d)alpa has produced.....

It should be a question of how well we have been served, and to what degree of 'good' has been realized on our behalf.

Its near certain any organization equipped with economic resources in the hundreds of millions a year..... given the most inadvertent circumstances.... would inevitably produce some positive benefit.

Alpa exists to serve alpa. And any 'good' produced in that environment has simply been a byproduct of that imperative.

 

bobz speaks for me. It's as though we are of like mind. ALPA must go