Happen to be an FSU and Bama fan and I'm wearing the orange, until we get the contract we deserve. You can bet your last dollar I will then dispose of the ugly thing! HOW I HATE ORANGE!!

I bet TSquare would actually wear the orange.;):D

I agree.

I'm not buying that for one second. If there were truly pent up anger you wouldn't see guys tripping over themselves to fly GS#5 etc etc.



That is partially accurate at best. Our contract is vastly better than it was during the depths of BK, so the convenient line of "still working under BK concessions" is misleading at best and an outright lie at worst.


True.

He can only "blow the whistle" when the RLA says he can...which is only when both sides have been released to self-help by the NMB.

All sides in these negotiations know that, including company, DALPA and mediator.

Now if you personally decide to fly (or not) any particular way, that is totally up to you and no one can dictate otherwise.

I hate orange being an FSU fan, but I wear the orange lanyard.

There's a guy on chit chat bragging about not wearing orange.
He's a DPA guy. DTW captain.
That right there says enough about the damage he's trying to do to the Delta pilots!

Yeah... What is he thinking??? DALPA has always been first in line when it comes to doing damage to Delta pilots!! Who does he think he is????😳

That's the Moak way of thinking. You've been brainwashed.
The union has collaborated with management in their use of the RLA to control pilot activism.
Moak's DALPA loved that injunction we got slapped with after the 49er incident. It was useful for them.

Those days are over.

The corporation is drowning in cash. They are struggling to figure out what to do with it all. Everybody is getting paid except us. Management is accumulating fabulous wealth. They are pocketing every dime of what used to be our pensions.

If we don't have a contract soon there will be consequences.
There are plenty of perfectly legal things we can do to express our displeasure.

Informational picketing is only step 1.
Step 2 is a hard-nosed communication effort. We need to call "Bu||$hit" every time Dickson or some other management drone sends out a memo encouraging us to work harder so they can win a JD Power Award and pump the stock so they can get even richer.

Then we need to put out a detailed handout to every non-contract employee explaining what just happened to their profit sharing and how that sweet 14% raise just might turn out to have been a pay CUT.
etc.
etc.
Step 10 is an all out effort to unionize every employee on this property.
Starting with the flight attendants.

https://m.popkey.co/5f0e26/Djqzx.gif

Brainwashed? Funny post. More like "living in the real world." That ain't always the case on message boards.

Nevertheless many of your subsequent points were valid, and I'll leave it at that. Just don't think we can engage in any withholding of service until explicitly directed to.

Not with my dues money. You want to donate to that cause have at it.

Commuted to work a few weeks ago with another commuter. 4 orange lanyards in the cockpit.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...4358724014.jpg

Unfortunately you don't get to decide where your dues money goes, WE do as in the leadership and the group as a whole. Unless I get a refund of the $1.7M BS sales job or the special committee expenses, you're out of luck. And even if that was the case.... take a number..... now serving #0.

Get comfortable with the loss of control, its going to be awhile.

True that. Is using dues money for organizing other non-ALPA groups even legal? I certainly hope not.

Well now....... seeing as the vast majority of our 'dues' money is spent on everything BUT our council, your complaints are a little late to the party.

National is relatively unencumbered with restrictions on spending. They spend dues on car allowances, housing allowances, pensions, political activities, social activities, and you wonder if spending some of that money on helping another AFL-CIO affiliate in a representation effort would be illegal?

I'm not sure. But then I'm a skeptic and I think a lot of what is done in the name of politics isn't exactly legal. The problem is its not discovered in time or the information isn't widely disseminated.

Or its just immoral. Like our fearless leaders' (both ALPA and Delta) compensation packages and fully funded retirements when the average dues payer/worker has neither.

This is very hypocritical in my view, but who am I?

Greatest worker bee # *************

We are all along for the ride my friend. I have but one vote. All of these "discussions" are merely that. discussions.

As long as there is no assessment for that kind of thing, I couldn't care less. Is it a waste of money? Probably. I will vote unequivocally vote no on anything that contains a provision to assess our membership to organize the FAs. ymmv.

Your money is already used to unionize employees from all walks of life. Where do you think the portion of your dues that goes to ALPA Int goes? Or how about the portion of your dues that goes to the AFL-CIO?

There will be no assessments. It won't take much money.

DALPA has always helped management fight off other unions merely by remaining silent.
If we don't have a contract this summer then we will no longer be silent.

I actually think it will be relatively inexpensive to organize the flight attendants. Past efforts by AFA and IAM have been pretty inept. Those unions didn't know Delta very well and it showed. Management easily swamped them with fear and propaganda about "culture" and "family". All we need to do is counter the scare tactics with good solid communications.
Let 'em know the pilots have their back. I think we are way under-estimating the power of that simple message. A lot of the women were kinda scared of the "machinists" and their reputation.

How much do a few reams of paper cost? If we want to get really extravagant we could host a couple of "roadshows" and/or start inviting FAs to our PUB events. Buy 'em some pizza and beer. (Well, maybe some white wine)
Its nickels compared to the piles of money we dump into the Herndon black hole every year.

Its my opinion that a large percentage of the flight attendants (maybe most of them) didn't have a real strong feeling one way or the other on those past union votes. They end up voting no, or not voting at all, just because management makes them afraid of change. They perceive the union as a risk. That group is "persuadable".
If we weigh in, and ask them to stand with us and help themselves at the same time, the votes will be there easily.

Then if they still won't give us a contract, on to the mechanics.

ALPA is part of the AFL-CIO, and Section 2 of the AFL-CIO Constitution reads:

The objects and principles of the federation are:

2. To aid and assist affiliated unions in extending the benefits of mutual assistance and collective bargaining to workers and to promote the organization of the unorganized into unions of their own choosing for their mutual aid, protection and advancement, giving recognition to the principle that both craft and industrial unions are appropriate, equal and necessary as methods of union organization.


So does that answer your question about if ALPA helping out another AFL-CIO union organize other workers on the property is legal? Not only is it legal...it's highly encouraged. I'm actually surprised nobody has filed charges against ALPA for not being supportive of the previous organizing attempts at Delta.

As i've said in another post...thinking that Delta pilots are better off without other work groups being unionized is just a bunch of bull****. If you are better off then why aren't Delta pilots the best paid, have the best benefits, and best work rules in the industry already? You've had 80 years to get there without other unionized work groups. How is it that some pilots at other carriers (where other employee groups ARE unionized) do better than Delta pilots? This is the good ole boys club way of thinking. The Moak train of thought. I thought you guys were tired of that? You want to keep hurting your negotiations because you're the unofficial bargaining agent for the whole company? Go ahead. Or you can pull your head out of the sand and see how having other employee groups unionized wouldn't hurt Delta pilots a bit...and in some cases might actually help. It's up to you. In the meantime...thanks for indirectly negotiating for the 20,000 flight attendants as well.

That's a good assessment. It's easy to persuade an ignorant group. It's the message of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't".

Believe it or not, having the flight attendants unionize would be an overall benefit for the Delta pilot group. Just think, that's 20,000 less people ALPA has to negotiate for.

BTW if FAs get a raise, we do too.

3B4

Win/win.

I'm pretty sure JamesBond knows there is nothing illegal about union organizing.
He's just throwing up a little smokescreen. He can't help himself.
FUD is a well known management and Moakist tactic.

So much for unity then eh?
You're right, just go and negotiate on your own. Make side deals with CS.
You're managements best friend. They love pilots like you!

Do you live under power lines?

I do wear my orange lanyard falcon- but I wear it to show solidarity with my fellow pilots in our quest for a good-to-great contract.... I do NOT wear it as a show of ALPA support... We the pilots are in a fight for a good-great contract IN SPITE of DALPA's determination to shove a POS contract down our throats with shady figures and a high dollar sales job... I hold out hope for that contract to come, but it's very tough to trust the organization that has repeatedly kicked me in the groin time after time either directly or indirectly!
You want my unity? Where was ALPA's unity when the company forloughed me only to outsource my job to the regionals?? ALPA didn't fight for me or any or pilot furloughed... Hell - they didn't even fight for us to get preferential status to be hired at those same regionals the represented!! Did my "union" call for unity when pilots were flying high time while we were all furloughed?? Crickets chirping again.... ALPA backs age 65 retirement after a poll of the pilots stated the rank and file were against it.. further stagnating our careers... You see a pattern here Falcon??
You may very well state that all of those actions were in the past and that I am crying over spilled milk- you would be correct about that, but let me also say that the next time that ALPA does something to enhance my career it will also be the first time that ALPA does so...
Capt Malone seems like a nice fellow, but the proof will be in the pudding as they say... Rumors are already being put out that we're agreeing to concessions>. I hope not!!! We shall see....
You say that management loves a pilot like me... I would say they have had much more success screwing the pilots using "my union" as the tool than they will ever get out of me....

Rant over.... Have a great big glass of orange juice! 😎

He's one of the most respected posters here. But you knew that.

If management wants to nickel and dime us again, I'll gladly pay an assessment for this.

Passing a resolution for an assessment to help the other groups unionize would be a more powerful signal to management than a strike vote.

They do. And they will. Hopefully there will still be a majority unwilling to settle.

That's when the real negotiations will begin.

Organizing the non contract employees will have no positive effect on our leverage. But you knew that.

If the FAs got a 5% raise to prevent their organizing, how would that affect us?

Hint: FAs are just over 30% of the domestic, non-pilot workforce.

I want my union using it's resources to improve and defend our contract, not help organize the FAs. If the FAs want a union, let them figure out how to get one. I support their right to organize, but I don't think we should be sticking our beeks into their organizing efforts. YMMV.

The problem I've heard post merger is "if we get/ask for that, they will have to give it to the other employees". We never had to deal with that as they were on their own to get what they could. If they have a union, they will have to negotiate that extra .05 cents themselves. It won't matter what we get, only what they can negotiate for themselves.

Let me guess.... it was dalpa operatives offering that explanation as to why something couldn't be done?

Thought so. Funny.... management had no problem giving the non-cons back their vacation..... and then tell us to pound sand. Oh..... and don't the non-cons still have a pension plan?

You, and your expectations have been managed at your loss, and expense.

As long as it is voluntary you can send them your whole paycheck for all I care.

Not sure how you got that from my post. My expectations have not been managed at all.

That's not true at all, at least not in recent history. The non contract employees didn't take a whopping 32.5% pay cut pre BK. The non contract employees didn't have their pensions terminated. The non contract employees didn't get a $2.2B claim in BK. The non contract employees didn't get equity in the merger, the non contract employees didn't get a a 20% pay raise with C2012. The non contract employees got over an 18% pay rate increase in 2015. What did we get, 3% on 1/1/2015, .55% in April and nearly zero after they got a 14.5% pay rate increase, despite promises from some of at least 3%. We've been divorced from the non contract employees for a while. Let's focus on our needs and our contract, the non contract employees are Delta's problem to deal with, not ours.

You don't buy into every word he says. Therefore you have been managed and are a dalpa operative. Pretty easy really.