I don't think it will be as big of stampede as you think (I mean we do have second year Captains right now) but I think your point is valid. I never thought that we would add Allegiant as an airline that we had to beat for narrowbody pilot pay.

It kind of reminds me of when I returned from furlough. We had just taken a 32.5% pay cut and they were asking for a 19% cut in bankruptcy. I had a management type on one of my flights and he came up and talked to us. He was explaining how the company really needed the additional paycut to survive. I explained to him that i had just returned from 3 years of furlough flying with second tier 135 and 121 supplemental airlines and if we took that paycut then Delta would be the least paying job that I had in the last 3 years.

Yup, they were over reaching then, just like they did last July and are probably doing right now, trying to get us to pay for our own increases by giving up concessions in other areas, such as JV Scope, sick leave, higher ALV's, etc.

The company is today making unheard of profits, and still trying to sell us concessions as their "Operational Needs". The only need they have is a bigger truck to haul the Billions in our ongoing concessions, from the G.O. to Wall Street, as stock buybacks!

Until the company has fully restored our 2004 pay, and our 60% FAE DB plan, I am in NO MOOD to discuss their 'Operational Needs'. :rolleyes:

Timbo

Honest question. What percentage of DC would be equitable to be equivalent to the 60% FAE?

Being that the DB isn't likely. I think (and we all know what opinions are like) that a 25% DC would be better as the money would be in our names and it already exists. More people could hit the max contribution limit earlier and excesses would still come to the individual after the limit was reached.

I have a DB and losing it would be total and complete BS from the SOBs.

Nobody knows what that number is, because the DC plan puts all the market risk on YOU, the individual, and removes it from the company. It also depends on how many years you have remaining to work, and how many years you live in retirement, and how the market does for the next how ever many years.

The whole reason ALPA transitioned to a Defined Benefit plan many years ago, was to remove the risk of the stock market, and so you would KNOW exactly what you will be paid in retirement. The benefit was Defined. It was 60% of your final average earnings, and it was paid out for LIFE, starting at age 60, not 65. When you died, your spouse got 50% of that number, until she died.

When my DB plan was terminated, I had 20 years at Delta and I was flying 757 domestic Captain. At that time, my DB plan was calculated to be worth $1.4 Million.

By today, it would be worth roughly $3 Million. My DC plan today is only worth $430,000, plus a monthly payout from the PBGC of about $6,700.

So, what would it take in a DC plan to equal the DB amount, for life? A heck of a lot more than the 15% we've been getting, that's for sure!

I'd be happy to have a hybrid plan, half DC, half DB. Keep the DC plan we have now, and add a 40% DB plan to that.

What I would really like to see would be if ALPA National went to the PBGC, and showed them the amount of money Delta and United and US Air is making today, and how many billions those companies are blowing on stock buybacks, while the PBGC is going to be stuck with paying our retirements. I would hope the PBGC would force those plans back to the companies that flushed them in the first place, and we could all be restored to our pre-bankruptcy retirement plans.

At the end of 2104, the PBGC was $61 billion in the hole. The single employer programs, like ours, accounted for about $20 billion of that deficit. If I read it right, there are about 22,000 plans in our category.

The other part, the multi employer programs are dragging the PBGC down and could be gone by 2023.

According to the GAO, 2014.

Only the Congress can help, and there's $18 trillion of debt to deal with.

That would be only fair, but Delta would argue that the PBGC has already agreed in writing never to attempt this. I think it would take a proof of fraud or misrepresentation in the original pension-dump negotiations to void that agreement. :(

ALPA PAC has the resources to influence Congress to act. Change the law. Companies that dumped pensions, almost in collusion. Now profitable, Delta thumbs it's nose at the pilots, active and retired. All the while, our management packs itself on the back in every way possible. D-5, Pulse. Really?

Quick question. Does the PBGC benefit continue to pay a surviving spouse or does it stop upon your death?

I believe it also pays the serving spouse 50%. There may be a choice you can make, like choosing to start at age 60, or at 65, where you can elect to have your spouse get 50%, or zero.

If you pick one of the survivor benefit plans then the answer is yes. Check with a financial planner because you might be better off buying a life insurance policy for your survivor than electing one of the survivor options.