Seniority progression at Delta vs SWA
08-17-2016 | 02:03 AM
#21
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: 737 right
ATL might not be the best reference. MCO-ATL commuting is one of the tougher ones in the system. I know a lot of pilots who have chosen to do the MCO-NYC commute because it has a lot more commuting options (Delta, United, AA, Jet Blue, Spirit) and their seniority on respective equipment is light-years ahead of their ATL counterparts. Just another factor to consider.
TPA and 1+45 to MCO. I hear the TPA-ATL commute is brutal as well. Honestly if I wanted to commute to the northeast I would have applied to United for the widebody opportunities. I really just don't want to commute at all. I was considering a TPA-ATL commute because there are 12-15 1hr flights a day, but that is the extent of what I want to do.
I do still have my app in at American though. It seems AA would have a good balance of everything; easy commute or drive to work, tons of retirements providing for good upgrade potential, lots of widebodies, and MIA is a junior base "for now". It will be interesting to see what comes of their SLI and how seniority shakes out in MIA afterwards.
08-17-2016 | 02:09 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
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From: A350 CA
Trust me if it weren't for the fact I live near a Southwest only base (MCO) then this wouldn't even be a question, but I know me and I know I will choose weekends, holidays, and flexibility over widebody flying so when I look at the numbers for a decent mid level seniority on a widebody in ATL based on today's distribution I realize that time spent in a widebody will be short for me. But that's just me and knowing my schedule preferences so if the majority of my career will be spent in narrowbodies why not drive to work and enjoy the schedule flexibility that Southwest offers?
If I thought I could spend the majority of my career in a widebody commuting to a 3 day trip that was commutable on both ends, had one leg the first day, one leg the last day, and 30 hours off in Rome, etc then I would be all over that, but realistically speaking especially considering Delta is buying a lot of narrowbodies and loves the term "joint venture" that type of flying will make up a small part of my career so as nice as the "dream" of 9-12 days a month flying a 777 across the pond unfortunately that will just have to stay just that, a dream.
If I thought I could spend the majority of my career in a widebody commuting to a 3 day trip that was commutable on both ends, had one leg the first day, one leg the last day, and 30 hours off in Rome, etc then I would be all over that, but realistically speaking especially considering Delta is buying a lot of narrowbodies and loves the term "joint venture" that type of flying will make up a small part of my career so as nice as the "dream" of 9-12 days a month flying a 777 across the pond unfortunately that will just have to stay just that, a dream.
As an example, you can hold A330 FO at JFK with DAL with about 3-4 years seniority and once you get there, just stay there and enjoy life. Who says you must upgrade to Captain...Easily commutable from MCO.
08-17-2016 | 02:12 AM
#23
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: 737 right
That's definitely something to consider, but our CEO has made it clear our growth is going to be south. He wants to takeover South America which is also why our next base will likely be FLL. Furthermore, there is so many gates and overnights in both MCO and TPA that one of them would have to always be a base. There has been talk of a TPA base for quite sometime, but I believe it will end up being MCO and FLL which should also help reduce the seniority in MCO.
08-17-2016 | 02:14 AM
#24
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From: 737 right
Not to mention I pickup a lot of day trips in open time that either start or end in TPA. Like today for example. Flying two legs and finish in TPA at 1545 having woken up in my own bed.
08-17-2016 | 04:02 AM
#26
Barbie's PIMP
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From: The Buck
I'm not sure if anyone is interested in seeing this, but I ran overall system seniority for a guy hired at Delta today vs a guy hired at Southwest 10 months ago. Both with approximately 33 years left of flying. I then compared that system seniority to what it took to hold each aircraft and seat in ATL compared to what it took to hold each seat in one of our junior bases (HOU) and senior bases (MCO) at Southwest.
I was surprised to see that narrowbody progression at Delta in ATL closely mirrors our career progression at one of our junior bases here at Southwest. It also appears that widebody flying will make up a small part of your career at Delta if you are unwilling to sit at the bottom of the list. Keep in mind this is only in ATL though. NYC would be totally different. And also keep in mind this assumes 1% growth per year at Southwest and obviously doesn't take into account another merger/acquisition. I also realize the Delta calculator doesn't take into account front end hiring and is based off hiring for retirements alone.
Hope this helps anyone else trying to figure out what to do!
I was surprised to see that narrowbody progression at Delta in ATL closely mirrors our career progression at one of our junior bases here at Southwest. It also appears that widebody flying will make up a small part of your career at Delta if you are unwilling to sit at the bottom of the list. Keep in mind this is only in ATL though. NYC would be totally different. And also keep in mind this assumes 1% growth per year at Southwest and obviously doesn't take into account another merger/acquisition. I also realize the Delta calculator doesn't take into account front end hiring and is based off hiring for retirements alone.
Hope this helps anyone else trying to figure out what to do!
If you can drive to work, or even wake up in TPA and start and end a trip there (smells like VB to me) why would you even consider switching over to an airline you know you're gonna have to commute for? Is the pay that much better?
08-17-2016 | 04:22 AM
#28
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From: 737 right
I did worst case scenarios on both sides. I ran Southwest at 1% growth even though we have experienced 7.3% growth this year and plans for 7.2% growth next year. With that kind of growth to possibly continue for the foreseeable future.
08-17-2016 | 04:37 AM
#29
Otto
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From: Turkish Pile Driver
Well the garbage came from your lakeside-graphics calculator. However, I do know that calculator only assumes hiring to cover the retirements each year so with Delta doing all of this front end hiring that certainly skews the numbers which I mentioned in my original post.
I did worst case scenarios on both sides. I ran Southwest at 1% growth even though we have experienced 7.3% growth this year and plans for 7.2% growth next year. With that kind of growth to possibly continue for the foreseeable future.
I did worst case scenarios on both sides. I ran Southwest at 1% growth even though we have experienced 7.3% growth this year and plans for 7.2% growth next year. With that kind of growth to possibly continue for the foreseeable future.
Did you account for any growth at DAL in your calculation? I was 2nd to last on the list when hired -- roughly #12,100, now our most jr guys are around 13,500 -- about 12% total growth over the last 2 years.
08-17-2016 | 04:40 AM
#30
Barbie's PIMP
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From: The Buck
I see where you got your data. The calculator isn't "my" calculator or even the company's, I believe one of the guys on the MEC built it but that's not terribly relevant. I've found it is great for a snapshot that is 2 months old for discreet base seniority information but is unreliable for any kind of future predictions.
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