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-   -   Scope and Cost Neutral (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/97051-scope-cost-neutral.html)

404yxl 09-07-2016 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2197517)
When you push the dpa agenda at this point in negotiations it just shows you are really one selfish .... You have a beef with alpa for whatever reason and are willing to throw the rest of us who want a better contract under the bus to achieve it. We don't care about your agenda so move on to something more constructive.

You do realize that I am not a DPA promoter, right?

I just find it amusing you are bashing a group that believes you should be restored to prior compensation levels that you had to give up to save Delta.

Hawaii50 09-07-2016 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by 404yxl (Post 2197524)
You do realize that I am not a DPA promoter, right?

I just find it amusing you are bashing a group that believes you should be restored to prior compensation levels that you had to give up to save Delta.

Why the usapa post above then? Who cares? I'd love full restoration of absolutely everything lost since 1972 without giving up any of the gains we've made since then but do you really think touching trips are coming back? And all flying that RJs do now that was done in 1989 comes back to mainline now?

404yxl 09-07-2016 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by Hawaii50 (Post 2197529)
Why the usapa post above then? Who cares? I'd love full restoration of absolutely everything lost since 1972 without giving up any of the gains we've made since then but do you really think touching trips are coming back? And all flying that RJs do now that was done in 1989 comes back to mainline now?

A lot of posts were bashing DPA lately and sharing USAPA was a complete and utter failure. It shows that you can fight for a just cause and win.

I have a hard time bashing a group that wants to fight to improve my life. I do find it odd with those that bash people that want to fight to improve their lives. Very strange

Bucking Bar 09-07-2016 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2197067)
We wouldn't be dealing with that if you guys hadn't have screwed up so bad last year...

Interested on getting your take on 25 last year v 50 this year.

... and your take on a 4 to 1 increase in mainline flying relative to the flying those 25 70 to 76 seaters could have flown, last year, v/s the ratio this year.

Like you, I want all Delta flying done by Delta pilots. If someone will trade me $4 for every $1 given, I would take that trade. If someone will give me 4 airplane's worth of flying for 1 airplane, that is a good trade that gets us closer to the goal.*

To get to NO DCI we must transition through LESS DCI.

* C2012's ratio was 1.125 to 1
* TA15 was 2 to 1 on jets, but 4 to 1 on the BHR

Bucking Bar 09-07-2016 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by 404yxl (Post 2197524)
I just find it amusing you are bashing a group that believes you should be restored to prior compensation levels that you had to give up to save Delta.

The DPA is a group that will do anything to win including subverting our current negotiations. It's politics destroying product.

They had it right back in 2012 when their position was that they would go away if they could not get enough cards so they would not undermine our negotiations. Now they are happy to undermine our negotiations in the hope that ALPA (and we) fail.

Bucking Bar 09-07-2016 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 2197443)

80 what are your cost estimates for the upcoming scope concessions I listed?

A union should NEVER cost out it's own members' jobs.

Is it really fair to look around the room at a LEC meeting, get together and resolve to sell the junior guy in the corner's job? HELL NO, it is immoral. What about that pilot's family and those who depend on that job? What about the more senior guy who's upgrade is at stake?

No, we do not sell jobs Jerry.

Viking busdvr 09-07-2016 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 2197567)
A union should NEVER cost out it's own members' jobs.

Is it really fair to look around the room at a LEC meeting, get together and resolve to sell the junior guy in the corner's job? HELL NO, it is immoral. What about that pilot's family and those who depend on that job? What about the more senior guy who's upgrade is at stake?

No, we do not sell jobs Jerry.

That there is some funny stuff BB!! I got a good chuckle! Thx

80ktsClamp 09-07-2016 08:46 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 2197567)

No, we do not sell jobs Jerry.

Then why the heck was all terrible gives you supported in NA2015 costed out in how many jobs it would reduce?

80ktsClamp 09-07-2016 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 2197563)
Interested on getting your take on 25 last year v 50 this year.

... and your take on a 4 to 1 increase in mainline flying relative to the flying those 25 70 to 76 seaters could have flown, last year, v/s the ratio this year.

Like you, I want all Delta flying done by Delta pilots. If someone will trade me $4 for every $1 given, I would take that trade. If someone will give me 4 airplane's worth of flying for 1 airplane, that is a good trade that gets us closer to the goal.*

To get to NO DCI we must transition through LESS DCI.

* C2012's ratio was 1.125 to 1
* TA15 was 2 to 1 on jets, but 4 to 1 on the BHR

So 50 has been agreed to? What about the ratio? I haven't seen anything AIP'd yet, have you? I do know that you were booted out of your position for the awful job you and RH did, though...

You are correct on the transitioning through less DCI.

80ktsClamp 09-07-2016 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 2197564)
The DPA is a group that will do anything to win including subverting our current negotiations. It's politics destroying product.

They had it right back in 2012 when their position was that they would go away if they could not get enough cards so they would not undermine our negotiations. Now they are happy to undermine our negotiations in the hope that ALPA (and we) fail.

This is spot on.


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