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It's comical that the Kool-Aide crowd likes to claim C2012 was responsible for the B717s. Fact: C2012 had ZERO relevance on the acquisition of the B717. This management team wasn't going to pass up the steal of a lifetime in this airframe. C2012 had nothing to do with it. Ed said they were eyeing the 717 the day SWA showed interest in Airtran.
What C2012 did was: - breath life in an ailing regional model. The CRJ200s are dying. The 76 seaters provided an economic replacement keeping the regional industry a viable model. - change our summer months from 31 days to 30 days allowing the company to reduce headcount (3% is a reasonable estimate) by requiring approximately 3% less pilots in the summer months. Hiring would have been FAR greater absent this concession. |
Schwanker,
I agreed with you and voted against C2012. But you had to look beyond just the 717 to the block hour ratio which was increased as a result of an event-driven process. Block hours = Pilot Jobs So if we gain 4 to 1 as RJ flying decreases it is a trade worth considering objectively. To get to no DCI we have to cross through less DCI. While scope is a religious item (I like the term moral item) for me, what will probably effect you and I more is what is coming with Aeromexico. It would be pleasing if we could move forward and start getting that JV restricted in such a way that we attain at least our fair share of that growth. |
Originally Posted by Schwanker
(Post 2198373)
It's comical that the Kool-Aide crowd likes to claim C2012 was responsible for the B717s. Fact: C2012 had ZERO relevance on the acquisition of the B717. This management team wasn't going to pass up the steal of a lifetime in this airframe. C2012 had nothing to do with it. Ed said they were eyeing the 717 the day SWA showed interest in Airtran.
What C2012 did was: - breath life in an ailing regional model. The CRJ200s are dying. The 76 seaters provided an economic replacement keeping the regional industry a viable model. - change our summer months from 31 days to 30 days allowing the company to reduce headcount (3% is a reasonable estimate) by requiring approximately 3% less pilots in the summer months. Hiring would have been FAR greater absent this concession. Meanwhile at Delta...24% of pilot group 2014+ DOH, 15 Month Captain upgrade. Block Hours=Pilot Jobs C2012 unquestionably shifted a significant amount of BHs from Regional to Mainline despite increased 76 seaters. It's simple arithmetic. I expect C2016 to do the same. Now if we can get the 330s and 765 to banded to 777 pay... #ScopeChoke |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 2197985)
Got the numbers from a person on the DALPA admin. And you thought I made it up.
Millions to be saved by management not having to do heavy maintainance on the 50 seat jets. $250 million to $300 million. I err on the high side because management always low balls us. WRT JV scope brought instantly in compliance and converting to block hours. It is not only the lost widebody positions, but the waterfall those upgrades would cause. Getting this right is everything. We must have instant compensation for management being out of compliance. No waiting years. No grievance. Rock solid language. We could easily give up a Billion here over the next decade. The same meaningless language will crush our future. Well not us old farts. I'm fighting for you young pilots and our profession. Scope is everything in this deal. Speak up. Once again, more screeching from you and nothing else. |
Originally Posted by 404yxl
(Post 2198250)
In doesn't matter if it is a E190 or C series. Plan B, C, etc, was always the Delta pilots flying MORE jets when they voted down allowing more 76-seat jets to be outsourced. Plan A is management's goal to outsource more, not less. Thankfully more and more of us see that.
The sooner you get off your high horse that DPA pilots hates Delta the better. DPA is comprised of pilots from all former airlines. In fact the first pilot who told me he was a DPA pilot was former Delta. Yeah, DPA is Delta haters :rolleyes: DPA pilots want restoration for all pilots. They want more restoration than DALPA has stood for. DALPA is on a razor thin edge to deliver on this one. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2198389)
Explain why American expanded RJ flying and reduced mainline airing the same time period? Getting rid of the E190.
Meanwhile at Delta...24% of pilot group 2014+ DOH, 15 Month Captain upgrade. Block Hours=Pilot Jobs C2012 unquestionably shifted a significant amount of BHs from Regional to Mainline despite increased 76 seaters. It's simple arithmetic. I expect C2016 to do the same. Now if we can get the 330s, 765. and 7ERs banded to 777 pay... #ScopeChoke |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 2198399)
And I want a Maseratti, Purple. DPA has no plan, no leadership, and no substance other than burning it down and starting over.
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Originally Posted by Hawaii50
(Post 2198404)
Wait, 404 is purple's dpa alter ego? hmmm. makes sense now. :)
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 2198389)
Explain why American expanded RJ flying and reduced mainline airing the same time period? Getting rid of the E190.
Meanwhile at Delta...24% of pilot group 2014+ DOH, 15 Month Captain upgrade. Block Hours=Pilot Jobs C2012 unquestionably shifted a significant amount of BHs from Regional to Mainline despite increased 76 seaters. It's simple arithmetic. I expect C2016 to do the same. Now if we can get the 330s and 765 to banded to 777 pay... #ScopeChoke C2012 put more 76 seat aircraft at the regionals, breathing life into the regional model. The argument could be made absent this scope concession, we may have seen even greater orders at mainline to provide the lift. Every contract cycle, management incrementally increases their ability to fly more 76 seat aircraft because we are so use to caving. That's all it is, another scope concession. Now they are back at the trough again, whether they need it or not. |
Originally Posted by JamesBond
(Post 2198403)
fixed your post
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