$20 an hour more for an RJ than what was obtained at a major carrier.

You lurkers should really let this sink in a minute. This was not in 1970. This was five..... years.... ago....... Realize what guys like Jerry and Purple Drank are doing here. Jerry is all about the failure of dALPA. All about the failure of YOUR union. PD is right there with him. Sign that DPA card, and weaken our stance, our unity and our ability to get a better deal. The company sees this. When they see that you sign a card for alternate bargaining agents, they dig in harder because they see fraction. "We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately" That phrase was true then and it is true now.

DPA is poison.

That's a mistake. I know it is a process, but this is the time to make that happen. We should set the bar on that one.


Then in subsequent contracts we can get to a rational pay scheme.

Ok let's say I agree with your breathing life into the regional model argument(I don't):

Why hasn't AA ordered more airframes for mainline instead of increasing regional airframes and reducing mainline?

Why the big difference between the two Legacies that have implemented Scope Choke vs the one that doesn't?

Your right. The regional industry would thrive on 50 seaters alone!:rolleyes:

I would guess AA is replacing mainline flying with regional flying because their scope allows it. Would you like to relax our scope further to allow Delta to do the same?

Why the big difference? Not sure what the difference is, but from what your saying (assuming it's what's happening), I'd say again it's probably because their scope allows it. Again, why would you argue more 76 seaters is good here?

Agree 100%. DPA type philosophy will result in the same path the Republican Party on, Path to being obsolete and irrelevant. This is what happens when you continually use emotion, repetitive rhetoric and statements that lack any math, reason, or analytical thinking(SWA Contract=8000 jobs, we'll have a new TA in 48 hours if rejected etc)



IMO getting 7ER banded this contract would be impossible unless we take a Cargo carrier type hit to the top rates like UPS and FedEx which pay their largest jets below UAL top rate.

I would prefer to keep the pay structure of the other Legacies and just band the 330 and 765. I think it's much more attainable and our 330 fleet is growimg rapidly.

Now we are getting somewhere!

Because their Scope ALLOWs them to. Our scope does not. While our scope allows them to add more 76 seaters our Block Hour protections forces them to remove 50 seaters and and add more mainline block hours before EACH additional 76 seater is allowed in service. This language does not exist at AA and you see the results.

#ScopeChoke

Then why are you implying scope concessions are good?

The company negotiated the ratios knowing their fleet plan. They know we always want more airplanes so they capitalized on their acquisition plans by asking us to relax our scope further. Of course, we obliged because that's just what we do.

Are you insinuating the 717s, 737s, and C series are coming because we fooled this management team? Did these acquisitions only make sense with 325 large RJs but weren't economically viable with 255 large RJs? These planes are coming anyways if it makes economic sense. Our scope give is just gravy on the top. This is taking mainline flying and giving it to the regionals. Is there something wrong with Delta pilots flying Delta branded aircraft?

Well it is growing I guess. I don't think rapidly is the word I would use. But we don't get if we don't ask to get the 7ERs included. Then WB/NB would be an easy step on the next contract, and then......

No the problem is the mission and its objectives aren't that difficult to process. Improve QOL while improving the financials of the people that produce the product. I recognize that there are and have been gains in the airline industry with regards to both since the 1930's. But in the past 8 yrs it appears that ALPA has overseen the continued degradation of the pilot force at Delta. I would submit that if DPA has nearly 5 to 6000 cards on file that the number isn't 13500 out of 13500, rather its more like 8000 out of 13,500. Not very unified, and hasn't been for some time. I would further surmise that this has much more to do with actual or perceived lack of leadership from DALPA and ALPA national. The continued real/perception of former ALPA personnel getting hired into management positions at Delta, for example, further erodes the trust from the line pilot to an organization who at times must defend/fight against the company for pilot compensation etc. I have watched with much dismay, what I consider chaos in the ALPA organization. It is utterly beyond comprehension that any type of concession would even be remotely entertained at the present time and environment. You... Bucking Bar and the rest of the pilot group represent a collection of perhaps the best trained, most focused, intelligent group of individuals on the planet. There are very few occupations on par with the requirements and training required to be a 121 operator. Fewer still with the currency and recurrency training requirements. Eds job is never on the line every 6 to 9 months, heck most surgeons aren't either. The responsibility that you and I along with our other fellow pilots shoulder each and everyday is unique, daunting and humbling. YOU are worth it, so am I and so is the other 13498 pilots at Delta. ALPA had better man up and realize this isn't CE Woolman we're dealing with, we ARE just numbers on a paper to management, and the numbers need to match the uber professionally trained people we are. ALPA needs to lead and deliver or get out of the way.

I don't think he is saying they are "good". I think he is saying that they aren't necessarily the third rail that you believe they are. As long as the seat count remains the same and there are fewer overall aircraft, and we get something in exchange, it could be a win for us. I know you don't agree with that, so I'll hang up and await the flamethrowers.