I have experienced a wide range of QOL on the 88.

When I started, I was ATL based. Commuting to reserve was no fun. They would fly me or sit me short call almost everyday I was available. I was really burnt out the first six months or so. If I had lived in base it would have been much more palatable. Left ATL to go to CVG and held a line off the bat with a much improved QOL (line vs. reserve is night and day different). Now on reserve in CVG after the displacements and have all my weekends off. Even though I have a long drive to work, still a good QOL (had 24 days at home in July).

My observations based on the above:
1 - ATL has so many 88 flights in and out and is such a big hub that you end up doing a lot of "little" trips that as a commuter, aren't really fun. I always hated sitting short call with one day available and get called to DH to BHM then fly in to ATL.
2 - CVG is such a small base with little mainline (let alone 88 flying) that they can't use you in the capacity that I described above. Plus I work weekdays on RSV so there are generally less sick calls to cover (guess that's why I've flown 40 hours this summer).

ATLM88FO went to a guy 4 from the bottom of the list last bid. Looks like they have about 35 unfilled spots there. Whether new hires will have them offered or not is anyone's guess. I believe that there is still some migration of guys to their desired bases post merger. The last bid was fairly big though, and folks are starting to get where they want to go.

Don't know about the seniority thing, but in 07/08 it was 9999 = most senior in the class and 0000 = most junior. Think it is contractual and I doubt has changed.

Looks like the big gaps after the last bid are:
MSPM88B -62
DTW320B -55
MSP320B -48
ATLM88B -35
NYCM88B -33
DTWDC9B -17
MEMDC9B -14
MSPDC9B -11

I'd expect a lot of the above for class assignments, but I'm not "in the know". Just doing some data crunching. Don't know how they are thinking DC9 staffing going forward, so that might be the wild card.

Anyways, congrats and good luck. We are all glad to have you!

AE = Advanced Entitlement.

An AE is basically a systemwide bid that allows you to change positions (base, seat, equipment) via AE (award), MD (mandatory displacement) or VD (voluntary displacement)

There are generally 3-4 of these a year and there is a lot more that could be said about it. If you're wanting ATL, you will be able to bid for it via the AE process. Newhires are NOT frozen (seatlocked) so hopefully you'll be able to get to ATL quickly if you don't get it right off the bat.

Welcome aboard! You don't know how nice it is to see some newhires. :D

If I were a new hire, I'd make a nest in MSP for a couple of years. It's going to go uber junior, especially on the -88. You're going to have your pick of flying, and will probably even be able to hold the ER after a bit.

If you don't commute, I'd think about buying a place in one of the downtown areas. St. Paul is more upscale than MSP, and it's got some decent places right on the river. It's only 20 minutes from the airport, and there is a fair amount of cool stuff to do. You can even get a condo that's connected to the Skyway.

Avoid the 'burbs like the plague, though, unless you have a family. Unless you have some kind of local connection, you will be personna non grata. I understand that CVG is somewhat similar.

Nu

I wish more guys had your attitude. We've had a lot of S guys migrate to the 320. :(

I know it's gone the other way too. I just want a line. :o

I don't think the migration to the 320 is necessarily by choice - especially in the SW bases like LAX - I have been losing seniority for 2 years now - from top 20% down to bottom lineholder/reserve. Hate going to school - epseciallly MSP in the winter - but commuting to reserve is even worse - glad lots of guys are moving up - just not me. You know, it's supposed to get better after 10+ years - although I'm flying with 20+ year Captains in the same boat - oh well - hopefully new hires will push up from the bottom.

I really don't want to learn a completely new way to flying (A320). I'm an old school McD guy. But damn, those airbusses are nice inside. Very very nice.

I think they're NWA's best kept secret. And so many old foggies were hooting and hollering about the 747 -- who cares about that. They'll be gone before I ever have a chance to get to it.

Super premium narrowbody :D

Shhhhh
 

SHHHHHHHHH! No it's not! :rolleyes:

The hesitancy to learn a new or different airplane really cracks me up. If I can significantly improve my quality of life by changing fleets or seats I really don't care who built the jet.

Stay away from the 320. Very, very scary. Can't land it in x-winds without serious pucker factor. :p

I flew the 320 for 10 years, it is absolutely the easiest airplane I have ever flown.

Thanks
 

I'm way too new to be worrying! You give me too much credit, I wouldn't even know what's Jr or Sr, done more flying in the Stans for a while. Thanks for the help.

...My observations based on the above:
1 - ATL has so many 88 flights in and out and is such a big hub that you end up doing a lot of "little" trips that as a commuter, aren't really fun. I always hated sitting short call with one day available and get called to DH to BHM then fly in to ATL.
2 - CVG is such a small base with little mainline (let alone 88 flying) that they can't use you in the capacity that I described above. Plus I work weekdays on RSV so there are generally less sick calls to cover (guess that's why I've flown 40 hours this summer)...

Really helpful information guys, thanks so much. MSP is actually the easiest commute for me from the west coast, and I know the midwestern peeps are cool, tho frozen. There's a lot to learn, especially if you might have to choose up front... Looking forward to the work.

Hi, I have a hypothetical airplane/base question. Let's say I want a base in "ABC" while I am on reserve, but once a line holder I would like a base in "XYZ" for commuting reasons. Aircraft 1 would probably give me the best QOL at ABC, but that aircraft does not have a base at XYZ. Would I be better off choosing an aircraft that is available at both bases so that I can transition more easily from one base to another, or do you think it doesn't matter because it is not that difficult to bid over to another aircraft when necessary (or it will be so long before I become a line holder that it really won't matter for awhile :) Any input would be much appreciated! Thank you.

You are not seat locked as a newhire, so bid anything you want... Once you make a change, you have a 2 year freeze on moves (unless it is a new aircraft/base combo). (info valid for DAL only, can't speak for airlines)

Training is a part of airline life, so I would bid to the base that you will be most comfortable in as a reserve.

Getting the base you want as a lineholder will come later, bid for now and the near future, don't bid an a/c on the hopes of "later".

Brocc-
That's really a matter of personal preference.
There's no freeze on new hire initial assignments so you are free to move whenever an opening exists at a different base or on a different aircraft.

Define "transition more easily" and "not that difficult".

It really comes down to whether you mind studying a new jet and going to the schoolhouse for 4-6 weeks. Some guys go there regularly and don't mind it at all. Its a cakewalk, even fun.
Some guys hate going there. They can do it OK, but its stressful and no fun.

In my observation, the older you are, the less tolerance you have for training.

Thank you for the advice. I think bid for the now and not worry too much about later is good advice. And I was talking about Delta specifically.

As far as defining "easily" and "difficult" I actually was talking more along the lines of how often Delta will allow you to switch aircraft (2 year freeze after 2nd aircraft answered that question partially) and I was also talking about if they run new bids frequently. For example, at my current (soon to be former) airline they went quite awhile without running a new award so everyone that was on one aircraft was stuck on that and everyone on the other aircraft was stuck on that until we saw movement, which lasted a couple years +. So I was not sure if sometimes years go by without opportunities to bid over to other aircraft at Delta.

Thank you :)

Yes. Things can definitely stagnate. Even go backwards.
You can absolutely get stuck in a category for long periods.
It has happened in the past and almost certainly will in the future.

Your guess is as good as anyone else's on predicting the US and global economy, war, terrorism, oil prices, etc.

....................................

I would really consider doing yourself and your family a favor and not commuting. Go ahead and bit the bullet and move to one of the larger hubs. Delta is always going to be a Eastern Airline. I was a long term west coast guy. Moving east was the best thing we did.
Commuting as we know it today is only going to get harder. It is also hanging by a thread. If there is one more major accident where one of the pilots had a horrible commute nothing is going to stop a flood of regulations that will follow.

FWIW, I hear that is going to change. Delta is going to be a GLOBAL Airline with US "bases" that will feed the world. LAX from what I was told will grow to make better feed for the world. Also, there is not one real dominant carrier in LA, so someone wants to SNAP it up!

TYG

LA will grow. It will grow a lot.

My guess is if DAL has its way, they would love two international bases in a few years.

Any talk that there may someday be overseas domiciles available?

Lots of Guam rumors a while back. Died down now.

Maybe in the future but the union and management would have to work out a lot of details.

Some sort of "TDY" arrangement? Premium pay, housing, 6 months, no family? DALPA would have to sign off.

Sal Island?

And the lawsuits will follow the regs, & not just from pilots. I see management fighting it too. If they are forced to force us to live in base, then they'll end up having to give us COLAs determined by our domicile. I can live in DTW for a lot less then I can live in NYC. Am I really doing my daughter a favor if I move her away from Grandma, Grandpa, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, and for my wife her Mom, Dad, & sister?

If the gubment tries to change that, things are gonna get much more messy.

Not only that but what about the "locals" (NYC, LA, etc) with their 2-3 hour drives in heavy traffic. Is that "worse" than a one hour flight commuter? What about the guy 5 minutes from the parking lot but with a screaming baby at home? We all should have cameras installed in our homes so government safety experts can monitor us for the greater good.

Don't even suggest that.

There has been talk off and on of a few international bases, but there would be a ton of details that would need to be worked out to make them a reality. I can see us doing that, but it is at least a few years off.

All those issues can effect a commuter exactly the same as a local before he even begins a commute. I commute even today. I have done it for most of my career. You can argue all you want but this issue is in doubt even as a write this post. It looks like ALPA will win this time but one more accident and its going to get ugly.

There is a bill in congress right now to require rules for commuters. The ATA has not made a peep about it. In fact they often bring up commuting when ALPA pushes for better rest rules. It looks like this bill will die in committee. As I mentioned another accident and it ALPA wont be able to kill it next time.
Pilots can sue all they want. They wont get far. There must have been at least 100 or more lawsuits about age 60 over the years. The courts always ruled the FAA can control items regarding flight safety.
We as pilots don't help ourselves much in this regard also. Most pilots commute so they are properly rested before a trip. We have however many who don't.

Yeah I know I was being sarcastic of course. Wouldn't put anything past some people though.

I hope people are right in saying commuter restrictions have died in committee this time around (at least).

Sailing is correct, there is another bill in committee in addition to the part of the FAA Re-Authorization bill that asked the FAA to "Study and report back." Either way it is a front burner issue for many and they could give two hoots what it does to your personal life.

It has not died. One is still in committee and the other one is very vague. That does not mean that some knucklehead incident by one of us will make them actually have to report back or have this bill sitting in committee go to the floor overnight. That is why everyone need to realize that their actions effect a group of 100K professional aviators in this country.

Good thing I can afford 2 houses. :cool:

I wanted to get some input from some DTW and MSP guys. What are the number of crews in MSP on the 320 and the 88; how many in DTW (320)? What does a typical pairing look like on the 320 and the 88? Thanks.

The 320/319 fleet flies everywhere in the lower 48, along with some Caribbean and Mexico. (there are even some European Charters for this next month for the NBA I believe, with stops in Iceland) Each 320 base has a mix of day trips, all the way up to 5 day trips worth close to 30 hours. In one 320 trip you may hit every base (MSP, DTW, LAX, MEM, SLC, NYC, ATL, CVG), and there are transcons too like TPA to LAX. The MSP MD90 category flies some ATL MD88 stuff, but also does one stops across the country in MSP mainly. You may start off a 4 day trip on the MD90 going MSP to San Jose, CA with a layover. The next day you go to DCA via MSP. The next day you fly to Bozeman, MT via MSP. And the last day you fly back to MSP, and then to Spokane and back to MSP and you are done. The 320 fleet has a lot of variety, but the MSP MD90 also has good trips, and 18 more MD90s are on the way too, slowly replacing some of the DC9s. The MD90s will eventually be flown at all bases, but right now MSP, CVG, and SLC are the only ones flying them, with NYC getting it next, and ATL last. Either way, both fleets offer some great trips. Some guys love the 320 so much they stay on it for as long as possible, and then go onto the A330. (a bigger 320) They like to say "DELTA" stands for "Don't Ever Leave The Airbus." Good luck!

Sim Training
 

Hey all, another new hire here. Just curious where the training is for the A320, MD-88 and DC-9s?

@CNI - A320 & DC-9 is in MSP at the old NATCO. 88/90 in ATL. Have fun & Enjoy. Say hi to BB & Erin for me!

Baja.

thanks Bill, any idea which one is bigger? dtw 320 or msp?

MSP 320B about 328

DTW 320B about 268

MSP 320 is more senior.