View Poll Results: Would you vote to ratify the hypothetical TA?
Yes, would vote to ratify
78
27.96%
No, would vote not to ratify
201
72.04%
Voters: 279. You may not vote on this poll
Possible TA?
09-20-2016, 09:24 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by gzsg
Great post Mike.
We are definately going to bring Bastian instantly into JV scope compliance.
That's a no for me alone, but when we do that the pilots will expect immediate penalties and far larger improvements than our current table position in hourly rates, DC, vacation and training pay.
We are definately going to bring Bastian instantly into JV scope compliance.
That's a no for me alone, but when we do that the pilots will expect immediate penalties and far larger improvements than our current table position in hourly rates, DC, vacation and training pay.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...152000637.html
09-20-2016, 09:27 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Ferd149
Could you expand on that some. Not arguing, but I've never heard that.
Sometimes the NMB even requires a TA be sent to labor before they will allow the parties to be released to a cooling off period/self help/PEB/etc.
I'm not saying we're at that point now (we're likely not yet) but being able to point to membership rejection of company proposals at least shows the NMB that its not a rogue MEC/NC holding up the process, which is pretty much what the Surrender Seven are accusing our MEC/NC of doing, which only serves to cast doubt in the minds of the NMB. Another TA rejection would at least smash that theory out of the water.
09-20-2016, 09:35 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,226
If a TA is agreed to which
1. The MEC has a majority in support, and
2. The MEC feels will pass MEMRAT by a large majority, then bring it.
Unfortunately, this MEC has had their hands tied from the beginning by
1. Having the POS 2015 TA as some sort of a baseline
2. Sandbagged with a weak admin and negotiating committee put in place as the previous MEC were walking out the door
3. Learning of weak AIPs after they became AIPs (not the intent of their direction per several council updates)
Hopefully they are able to right this ship, especially with a less than motivated management team whose goal is a cost neutral concession filled TA (as in POS 2015).
1. The MEC has a majority in support, and
2. The MEC feels will pass MEMRAT by a large majority, then bring it.
Unfortunately, this MEC has had their hands tied from the beginning by
1. Having the POS 2015 TA as some sort of a baseline
2. Sandbagged with a weak admin and negotiating committee put in place as the previous MEC were walking out the door
3. Learning of weak AIPs after they became AIPs (not the intent of their direction per several council updates)
Hopefully they are able to right this ship, especially with a less than motivated management team whose goal is a cost neutral concession filled TA (as in POS 2015).
09-20-2016, 09:40 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
Originally Posted by Sink r8
You guys are hilarious. Well, you would be, if you weren't talking about real gains and losses affecting real families, as if it's a philosophical point only.
Not only is the MEC not able to wrap-up a deal that trounces TA1 in value when the environment is just about perfect, and all the positive catalysts are baked in, but they're slowing going down a trajectory where they'll underperform TA1 in terms of TVM. And that's assuming no adverse events, and a decent economy, and favorable oil prices.
I think that ANY deal we do, whether now or in years when the MEC falls on their sword, will contain concessions. The only question is whether our total annual returns will be in the fives and sixes (as they could be if we acted this summer), or the threes, if we follow the industry.
So yes, you're right I want to vote before we bypass fives and sixes for quixotic searches for tens and twelves, and end up like everyone else: threes. The longer you wait, the higher the rate increases have to be.
That's where I'm coming from.
Not only is the MEC not able to wrap-up a deal that trounces TA1 in value when the environment is just about perfect, and all the positive catalysts are baked in, but they're slowing going down a trajectory where they'll underperform TA1 in terms of TVM. And that's assuming no adverse events, and a decent economy, and favorable oil prices.
I think that ANY deal we do, whether now or in years when the MEC falls on their sword, will contain concessions. The only question is whether our total annual returns will be in the fives and sixes (as they could be if we acted this summer), or the threes, if we follow the industry.
So yes, you're right I want to vote before we bypass fives and sixes for quixotic searches for tens and twelves, and end up like everyone else: threes. The longer you wait, the higher the rate increases have to be.
That's where I'm coming from.
09-20-2016, 12:14 PM
#147
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
sinkr8, will you be accepting pay to push the next TA like you did for the failed TA?
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
09-20-2016, 12:34 PM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by Sink r8
I don't think you mean to come contemptuous with this "impatient minority" stuff, but it you can't prove where the group stands. Based in the best info I have, the MEC is out of step with the group. I think the group clearly sees a TA between the last table positions.
.
You're predicting the past, and the present, and you're getting it 100% right: our failed TA reset the industry, everyone patterned up, and it's our turn. The next time is now.
Or are you expecting everyone to lap us with another contract? Because that could actually happen, while we master-debate over the perfect contract.
.
You're predicting the past, and the present, and you're getting it 100% right: our failed TA reset the industry, everyone patterned up, and it's our turn. The next time is now.
Or are you expecting everyone to lap us with another contract? Because that could actually happen, while we master-debate over the perfect contract.
I accept that most posters on APC can't prove their suspicions and acknowledge I surely cannot claim to know the will of the masses. I have my hunches as do you, and suspect anyone reading my posts is well aware I have no polling data at hand. I believe there is a YES between our two positions, but personally believe it to be well north of the midpoint. I'm not seeking a perfect contract, but one that is clearly industry-leading as Management professes to desire. DAL table position lags the industry quite plainly.
09-20-2016, 12:53 PM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
sinkr8, will you be accepting pay to push the next TA like you did for the failed TA?
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
Wait as long as you want to kill that sick note. Good for you.
09-20-2016, 01:14 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
sinkr8, will you be accepting pay to push the next TA like you did for the failed TA?
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
Why are you in such a rush for a deal? Why are you trying to get others to accept all these concessions? Are you having money problems? I'd be happy to help you resolve them if it will allow you to stop focusing on pay rates, and start focusing on time with your loved ones.
The guys I fly and talk to will wait for a good deal. These AIPs are onerous and utterly unnecessary in this climate.
