Is that chart title correct? It shows that TransAtlantic BHs alone (not total international) were aroung 675,000 in the June 2015 time frame.

 

I don't know the source of this chart or how they put it together.

Been asking ALPA to publish the data.

 

Well, if the chart is correct (title and all), then we're getting royally screwed with the 650,000 BH total international WB floor being proposed. I suspect the title of the chart is incorrect though. A lot of bad information floating around.

 

OK standby. I did some charts on this in 2014

662,443 BH Total Intl. Widebody Flying

Here are the subsets of protection inside the larger global total
576,775 Protected in Virgin Atlantic agreement
347,269 Protected by AF/KLM/AZ JV
181,424 Protected by Pacific Flying agreement (including 757)

So based on the what we know, we protected all but about 2 aircraft worth of our widebody ops, circa 2014. That pretty much aligns with the 1 city pair RT margin discussed in the NotePad (not that I doubted the notepad) but it gives some credibility to our web board SWAG.

 

All this does is lock in a downside floor in WB hours. If we never fly 46.5% and all the growth and current flying shifts to AF/KLM we will only be required to fly 95% of our current WB hours. This will also shift flying away from Europe. We are now forever in the minority of the JV production.

 

OK, help me out here. I AM the guy avoiding the math because they said there'd be no math when I joined APC.

Your Virgin Atlantic and AF/KLM/AZ protected BHs alone add up to 924,044. And now we're saying a 650,000 BH floor TOTAL for ALL INTERNATIONAL is good? What am I missing?

 

I'm not talking ratios, I'm talking block hours. Also, I don't care who first initiated a JV. I'm sure those deals are addressed every few years just like our contract.

Just once I would like to see a code share deal that benefits the Delta pilots more than it benefits the pilots at the partner airline. At a minimum we we should have 50/50 on the ratios.

 

VA is under its own agreement separate and apart from the Bundle 1 EASK's of the AF/KLM JV.

I would recommend reading section 1 in its entirety.

Each JV agreement has its own particular rules that govern balances.

 

Per the language 50/50 is the baseline. 48.5%-52.5% (section 3.P.4 for your reference). The test lines begin at below 48.5 and 47.5.

Keep in mind its Delta at around 50% and then all of AF/KLM/AZ make up the other 50. That seems pretty good to me.

But protecting our ratios is one thing, protecting our jobs in a down cycle or catastrophe is another.

We currently have NO protections. If trans atlantic cratered because of a massive attack in Europe or if the plague comes back, we would simply ratio down with our JV partners.

Jobs would be lost.

Now, we have gotten a shorter observation period to get money back if the company breaks our agreement AND we protect jobs with the block hour floor...keeping current jobs we have by allowing them to be shifted into other trans oceanic markets.

That seems like a good deal to me?

 

Yeah, I get the EASK carve outs in the separate JVs. My exchange with BB is regarding the proposed 650,000 international BH floor.