Ta 2017
11-24-2017, 10:36 AM
#831
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 728
How many times does it have to be stated that it was only 83 hours for the retention bonus and NOT the overall pay rate?
86% of our folks like this deal, even the ones who were vocal on here and FB voted it in because they couldn't turn down undeniable money.
86% of our folks like this deal, even the ones who were vocal on here and FB voted it in because they couldn't turn down undeniable money.
11-24-2017, 11:05 AM
#832
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by billsaw
Jees dude telling people to go screw themselves. Big internet tough guys around here.
It is a serious question and you still didn't answer it genius...
On the little line in the spot where it said 4 the ole union could of penciled in a 3. Get it?
For too long RJ unions have ****ed all over their guys.
Its's pretty simple and smart.
The majors pay a fixed amount for flights.
So the company makes a set profit. It's engineered that way.
So now when the RJ pilot union goes to management and says we want more money management says well that's great but there is no spare cash so good luck. It's set up that way. Then union caves because their real customer is the major guys.
Well now RJ management and the majors both have the same problem. Nobody wants to fly for chicken scratch and flights get canceled.
To be honest if management had a brain at both the RJ level and parent company level they would be paying maybe 50-60k first year and jump to 80k the second because if the yung uns don't start going to flight school this ain't getting fixed.
Brings me back to my original question. Why 4 years? You know and management knows that ain't gonna work so why do it?
And if you don't have an intelligent answer you can ..... Well you know...
It is a serious question and you still didn't answer it genius...
On the little line in the spot where it said 4 the ole union could of penciled in a 3. Get it?
For too long RJ unions have ****ed all over their guys.
Its's pretty simple and smart.
The majors pay a fixed amount for flights.
So the company makes a set profit. It's engineered that way.
So now when the RJ pilot union goes to management and says we want more money management says well that's great but there is no spare cash so good luck. It's set up that way. Then union caves because their real customer is the major guys.
Well now RJ management and the majors both have the same problem. Nobody wants to fly for chicken scratch and flights get canceled.
To be honest if management had a brain at both the RJ level and parent company level they would be paying maybe 50-60k first year and jump to 80k the second because if the yung uns don't start going to flight school this ain't getting fixed.
Brings me back to my original question. Why 4 years? You know and management knows that ain't gonna work so why do it?
And if you don't have an intelligent answer you can ..... Well you know...
While other rj and mainline carriers have to wait for the full section six we lock up our negotiations on time and shortcut to final phase if no agreement is reached.
Troll away. You're either looking for entertainment or you're simply clueless on how section 6 bargaining works. Ask jetblue, theyre at the "take ads out in ny post and boston herald" step in the long road. Who wants to bet we'll be done with ours 6 yrs from now while jetblue is still lost in the weeds.
Last edited by PT6flyer; 11-24-2017 at 11:21 AM.
11-24-2017, 11:10 AM
#833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by clueless
yea, my bad dude...calling you a liar was out of line. I guess I was in a bad mood this morning when I posted that. That being said, I do disagree with your standpoint. Until they implement the 20K hiring bonus (which I think will be soon), a new guy hired 1/1/17 will probably make more in his first year than a pilot hired on 1/1/18. I think that this 'TA' passing is good and bad. I think the good outweighs the bad for the majority, and that's why I'm not furious that it passed, but if I wasn't still on probation, I would have been in the 14%, and I think a lot of the new guys that have been here less than a year would be as well.
11-24-2017, 11:30 AM
#834
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 426
Originally Posted by Iceberg
$1571. That’s the “hit” for you this year. Maximum. You go over 75 hours, which you do, it’s less. 16.3 hours in a year and you're even. 16.4 and you win. I bet you can beat an average of 76.35 hours per month without trying, which means you will be in a better place than now.
I see no issue with the senior group getting pay rates back in line with where they were. Your “hit” now is way less than their “hit” 4 years ago. Reflect a little, your entitled attitude is embarrassing to be associated with. Thanksgiving would have been a good day to realize you have it alright in this world.
And no, I'm not union. I’m also not a tool, turd, punk, or whatever other name you are bestowing on everyone you don’t agree with.
I see no issue with the senior group getting pay rates back in line with where they were. Your “hit” now is way less than their “hit” 4 years ago. Reflect a little, your entitled attitude is embarrassing to be associated with. Thanksgiving would have been a good day to realize you have it alright in this world.
And no, I'm not union. I’m also not a tool, turd, punk, or whatever other name you are bestowing on everyone you don’t agree with.
Also yes I do have a problem with the senior guys working a lot less to break even...something like 60 hours for some and I have to work my tail off and see my family less to get my pay raise. along with reserves/cno/cdo guys getting thrown under the bus again.
11-24-2017, 11:34 AM
#835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 728
Let's look at this this way, we have payraises baked into this contract with a 2% bump the last year. We could get a shorter term one and then get locked into negotiations for ages (like 9E prior to JCBA 2011) losing money every year due to being end of the line.
11-24-2017, 12:00 PM
#836
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by teddy3412
I've been here less than a year and I would've voted yes. As well as nearly everyone from my class.
11-24-2017, 12:19 PM
#837
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
YOU might see it as a **** board, but it is actually a place for people at EDV to discuss issues we have, and for people from OAL or looking to get into the industry to take a look at us. With the exception of you and about 3 others on here, most of the discussion is positive and fairly professional.
For December, you are scheduled to block 70, but are crediting 75.
For November, you blocked 65 and credited 93.
So don’t hide behind your keyboard and tell us how you work your tail off while guys more senior to you are having it so easy. Heck, using just November alone, you will have credited enough to make up for ANY possible “pay cut” you would have had for the next 12 months. That $96.31 you’ll be making in January... would have gone really well with your 93 credit in Nov.
For December, you are scheduled to block 70, but are crediting 75.
For November, you blocked 65 and credited 93.
So don’t hide behind your keyboard and tell us how you work your tail off while guys more senior to you are having it so easy. Heck, using just November alone, you will have credited enough to make up for ANY possible “pay cut” you would have had for the next 12 months. That $96.31 you’ll be making in January... would have gone really well with your 93 credit in Nov.
Originally Posted by whoareyou311
This is a ***** board...if you wanted unicorns and rainbows maybe you should join the riddle forum. Also yes I do have a problem with the senior guys working a lot less to break even...something like 60 hours for some and I have to work my tail off and see my family less to get my pay raise. along with reserves/cno/cdo guys getting thrown under the bus again.
Also yes I do have a problem with the senior guys working a lot less to break even...something like 60 hours for some and I have to work my tail off and see my family less to get my pay raise. along with reserves/cno/cdo guys getting thrown under the bus again.
11-24-2017, 12:30 PM
#838
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Thanks. I try not to lie too much, except about my johnson. And I appreciate you catching my use of the old pay rates (I never even noticed that they only went up for year 1 FOs when they changed).
As for your comparison between a 2017 & 2018 FO, let’s look at it. I haven’t yet, so it will be interesting to see...
2017 NH: $30.30 per hour plus $23K bonus puts them at $50,270 for the year.
2018 NH: $50.16 per hour plus $10K bonus puts them at $55,144 for the year. ($51,255 for year 2 FO. Slight pay cut, but not as drastic as other regionals)
Seems like even at the minimums, a 2018 NH makes more. But wait, there’s more! If each FO credits an extra 10 hours per month (easy to do), the 2017 NH makes $3,636 extra in 2017. The 2018 NH makes $6,019 more.
In addition to that, the bonus is withheld at 25%, and I’d wager the majority of FOs are not in the 25% tax bracket, which means more money in our pockets throughout the year (yeah, I know it all balances out at tax time, but not everyone is patient enough to want to wait that long to see their money).
Unless I am missing something, I think this shows the new pay rates are better even for a new FO. Let me know if my math is off, or if I am forgetting a particular aspect of our pay.
As for your comparison between a 2017 & 2018 FO, let’s look at it. I haven’t yet, so it will be interesting to see...
2017 NH: $30.30 per hour plus $23K bonus puts them at $50,270 for the year.
2018 NH: $50.16 per hour plus $10K bonus puts them at $55,144 for the year. ($51,255 for year 2 FO. Slight pay cut, but not as drastic as other regionals)
Seems like even at the minimums, a 2018 NH makes more. But wait, there’s more! If each FO credits an extra 10 hours per month (easy to do), the 2017 NH makes $3,636 extra in 2017. The 2018 NH makes $6,019 more.
In addition to that, the bonus is withheld at 25%, and I’d wager the majority of FOs are not in the 25% tax bracket, which means more money in our pockets throughout the year (yeah, I know it all balances out at tax time, but not everyone is patient enough to want to wait that long to see their money).
Unless I am missing something, I think this shows the new pay rates are better even for a new FO. Let me know if my math is off, or if I am forgetting a particular aspect of our pay.
Originally Posted by clueless
yea, my bad dude...calling you a liar was out of line. I guess I was in a bad mood this morning when I posted that. That being said, I do disagree with your standpoint. Until they implement the 20K hiring bonus (which I think will be soon), a new guy hired 1/1/17 will probably make more in his first year than a pilot hired on 1/1/18. I think that this 'TA' passing is good and bad. I think the good outweighs the bad for the majority, and that's why I'm not furious that it passed, but if I wasn't still on probation, I would have been in the 14%, and I think a lot of the new guys that have been here less than a year would be as well.
11-24-2017, 01:01 PM
#839
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Up Front
Posts: 1,628
Originally Posted by whoareyou311
you are a real union tool. The senior guys made out huge. The 83 hour divisor for them is much much lower... this stupid a** chart doesn't mean jack. Go jump back up the unions butt from where you came from. The simple fact of the matter is the junior guys took a hit to make the senior guys whole.
11-24-2017, 01:06 PM
#840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,014
Originally Posted by HighFlight
Thanks. I try not to lie too much, except about my johnson. And I appreciate you catching my use of the old pay rates (I never even noticed that they only went up for year 1 FOs when they changed).
As for your comparison between a 2017 & 2018 FO, let’s look at it. I haven’t yet, so it will be interesting to see...
2017 NH: $30.30 per hour plus $23K bonus puts them at $50,270 for the year.
As for your comparison between a 2017 & 2018 FO, let’s look at it. I haven’t yet, so it will be interesting to see...
2017 NH: $30.30 per hour plus $23K bonus puts them at $50,270 for the year.
The new rates are definately a small pay cut for new hires if they credit the bare minimum of 75 hours, but the new contract opens up avenues for those willing to work just a bit more (not a lot, just average or even slightly less than average) to make a lot more money than 2017. I'm just a few months in and easily crediting an average of 100-110 hours a month even on reserve (living in base). Easy to do with the reserve utilization being low and picking up extra time on days off (treating those unused FO reserve days as days off). I suspect I will be able to pick up far more open time once I'm off reserve. I would estimate a new hire in my shoes (read: not-commuter) who hires in on Jan 1, 2018 could easily earn $65k if they hustled just a tiny bit. Sure, they're not going to get 17-18 days off, but neither are my friends at Skywest making much less.
Last edited by flydiamond; 11-24-2017 at 01:16 PM.
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