How do your trips pay?
10-03-2018, 11:07 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
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How do your trips pay?
At OO we are fighting for marketing block or better pay (the departure time to the arrival time set by the mainline partner). Currently we are paid our historical block or better which is usually significantly less. We are being told that you guys get paid the same as us. Is that true?
10-03-2018, 12:16 PM
#3
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Originally Posted by MIkeFavinger
Yes. We get Scheduled Average Time (SAT) or better.
10-03-2018, 01:44 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by word302
Do you know what process they use to calculate that? Also what process they have to go through to change it?
Code:
SATs are determined by using the average of historic en route (Block-ToBlock) times between city pairs by equipment. All SATs will be rounded to the nearest minute. Once an SAT is established, it will be retained until amended. b. SATs shall be reviewed by the joint Company/ALPA Review Board every six (6) months (using the prior twelve (12) months) to determine if any adjustments are to be made. Adjustments will be made when the average varies from the established SAT by more than ten percent (10%) or five (5) minutes. However, no adjustment will be made unless the segment has been flown more than thirty (30) times in the prior twelve (12) months. c. When a new route is established for which no SAT has been computed in accordance with paragraph B.2.a., above, published marketing schedule times will be utilized initially. After ninety (90) days of operation (no less than one (1) operation per week for a period of ninety (90) days) or one hundred fifty (150) segments, by equipment type, the simple average of all Block Times during such initial period of operation will become the SAT. The new SAT will be established at the next meeting scheduled pursuant to paragraph B.2.b., above. Thereafter, the provisions of paragraph B.2.b., above, shall apply. d. A joint Company/ALPA Review Board will meet for the purpose of determining the necessity of adjusting SATs as outlined in paragraph B.2.b., above, and establishing new SAT times as outlined in paragraph B.2.c., above. e. The Company shall publish the SATs with each Monthly Bid Package
10-03-2018, 02:00 PM
#5
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Posts: 527
Just recently I wondered the same thing in reverse but I searched the OO forum and it seemed to be pretty well discussed... and any sense I could make of it is that we get paid exactly the same. What you call "historical" we call "SAT" as detailed above, and we get paid the better of SAT block or actual block, leg by leg.
There's this common ditty around here (in supposed explanation of why Skywest flies so slow) that "they don't get paid the same way as us." But... it seems that they actually do?
Actually I think even some of us don't know about the difference between SAT and marketing, (I know I didn't, for a while) and marketing is what shows up in all the commonly viewed scheduling portals, apps, etc. SAT is kinda hidden. And I think the confusion stems from the phrase "block or better" which I wish would go away, since it conflates different terms that we are actually trying to distinguish. There are 3 times in play: SAT, marketing, and actual, all 3 of which are "block" (meaning door close to door open). So it's really "SAT or better," but I guess that doesn't have as much of a ring to it.
There's this common ditty around here (in supposed explanation of why Skywest flies so slow) that "they don't get paid the same way as us." But... it seems that they actually do?
Actually I think even some of us don't know about the difference between SAT and marketing, (I know I didn't, for a while) and marketing is what shows up in all the commonly viewed scheduling portals, apps, etc. SAT is kinda hidden. And I think the confusion stems from the phrase "block or better" which I wish would go away, since it conflates different terms that we are actually trying to distinguish. There are 3 times in play: SAT, marketing, and actual, all 3 of which are "block" (meaning door close to door open). So it's really "SAT or better," but I guess that doesn't have as much of a ring to it.
Last edited by vessbot; 10-03-2018 at 02:14 PM.
10-03-2018, 02:38 PM
#6
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by vessbot
There's this common ditty around here (in supposed explanation of why Skywest flies so slow) that "they don't get paid the same way as us." But... it seems that they actually do?
They still fly f'n slow, though.
10-03-2018, 02:44 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by ninerdriver
The common ditty is more about the hourly wage disparity than the way that wage is paid. The idea is they need the padding (for now), so they pad it.
They still fly f'n slow, though.
They still fly f'n slow, though.
10-03-2018, 02:58 PM
#8
Part of the problem
Joined APC: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by word302
At OO we are fighting for marketing block or better pay (the departure time to the arrival time set by the mainline partner). Currently we are paid our historical block or better which is usually significantly less. We are being told that you guys get paid the same as us. Is that true?
10-03-2018, 03:08 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Flogger
There is no fighting for anything at OO. Get a union. Then we'll talk about fighting.
10-03-2018, 03:09 PM
#10
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Posts: 527
Originally Posted by ninerdriver
The common ditty is more about the hourly wage disparity than the way that wage is paid. The idea is they need the padding (for now), so they pad it.
They still fly f'n slow, though.
They still fly f'n slow, though.
I've also heard a more nuanced version that their "historical" is fudged low, so they're doing actual most/all the time, which would make slow flying pay off most/all of the time. And that could certainly be true.
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