jethikoki

Most regionals would not exist if not for mainline. Mainline management benefits from the whipsaw competition between regionals that is not allowed or doesn't occur between mainline carriers. This whipsaw would never occur if it was all in house. Heck all the regional pilots could be at their affiliated mainline at the same pay or maybe even paid less but also have normal career progression. All pilots could or would be starting at the true bottom rather then getting a head start beginning at a mainline. All pilots could be vetted and given the same entrance exams and interviews which mainlines love to use as their lame excuse that you haven't been vetted.
Granted this is all just wishfull thinking or in a perfect world but if you can't agree that this system that was set up did not have discrepancies and unfair practices against regional pilots in general it does have that appearance and feel of unfairness at times.

theUpsideDown

I'm not sure who you are trying to convince here, but for everyone's sake let me do the history lesson, as you've wrongly guessed at every opportunity what the history of anything is. Keep in mind I'm not the old Delta guy coming to this webboard teach you regional guys anything, I'm the guy that came from EDV, volunteered for years and have always favored a flow. You were wrong, a bunch, and were blaming this on the union, which is why I stepped in. Delta doesn't want the flow, don't put that on the union. The union doesn't make business decisions, don't put the business decision of Delta or any other mainline entity onto the union. Because...again, the union doesn't make those choices. There was no way to fence the flying in either, the second one or two mainline unions started reigning in scope (which again, no one envisioned regionals they were all miniscule codesshares back then), bankruptcy happened and the regionals were the only source of large profits, so the bankruptcy judge (who isn't a part of the union either) made a bunch of those choices for the labor groups. ALPA can't get all the toothpaste back in the tube, it wasn't all in the tube to start with, but they're trying to reign more of it in each bargaining cycle. The only thing I've noticed is regional pilots would like mainline unions to do MORE to reign it in. Sure, and people in hell want ice water. There's a big picture and the regional lift is one part of the puzzle. A puzzle which neither mainline pilots nor the mainline unions created.

TL;DR? You're replying to my post but your having a different conversation, and after volunteering for a long time for the union I'm not gonna read you blaming them. To date I've done more for your pilot group than you have, and I don't even work there anymore.

Maybe someday there will be a flow, I hoped and still hope there is one, if there isn't I hope EDV and delta jack your pay up more to retain pilots and draw more in so EDV is the first among equals of regionals. If you have some problem with that play in traffic.

jethikoki

All great points but you did move on to a mainline and good for you. I guess the regional didn't have a good enough contract that fulfilled your needs. Since you have been around awhile I guess you can remember the day's when there was only a trickle of hiring at the mainlines before the mergers and downsizing. The hiring predominantly went to military rather then union pilots at the regionals. Nothing against the military guys or anyone hired but it stagnated the senior guys at the regionals making it difficult to get to the left seat at the regionals. Probably would have worked out better if mainlines didn't give up scope. On a comparison basis for airline buyouts and mergers who made out better historically when a mainline buys out another mainline compared to a mainline buying out regionals.

theUpsideDown

Mainline wasnt given a chance to cave or not cave on scope during backruptcy

As for hiring talk to the airline, union doesnt hire people either.

Is the last part a question? Mainline historically did horrible and hilariously welll both buying regionals. If you just want to look at Delta as a for instance, they bought comair in 1999 for 2.76 billion smackers in todays dollars. An operation they folded. In 2013 they took possession of pinnacle, later called edv, in bankruptcy for 76million in todays dollars. If you wanna argue they gave pinnacle an additional 80mil to buy Mesaba, thats fine, but someone will bring up most of that DIP financing was working against money already owed to Delta.

Your post appear to be fishing expeditions for someone to spoonfeed you history.

jethikoki

No spoof just curious. In today's environment most of this is moot. Thanks for the discussion and providing your insight. Again congratulations and good luck as you progress in your career with DAL.

Baradium

Most of the really senior guys I knew at the regionals weren't really trying to go to mainline. They would say things like they couldn't afford the schedule or pay hit or having to commute. Even not so senior CAs said that. Not all lifers are lifers because they weren't able to leave, some didn't try. Some of those same pilots did leave when the SSP came up.

And it wasn't that airlines were hiring all these military pilots, with age 65 they weren't really hiring at all. With that a lot of mil pilots stayed in because they didn't have anywhere to go either.

I get it, you're unhappy. But you come across as wanting everything handed to you on a silver platter, even if there was no way you even saw it as a possibility when you were hired.

jethikoki

Where did the silver platter come from? Do people have to be in agreement with your thinking and if not they need to be remanded or something? I merely expressed concerns of equality and differences but thanks for the positive feedback.

Blueskies21

You're looking for equality of result, such a thing almost never exists in the real world.

The closest you ever will get is equality of opportunity and even that is a tough thing to achieve.

2 pilots from the same flight school might not make it to the major on the same timeline. In equality of result, they would. In equality of opportunity, those two pilots MAY be offered the same opportunities (again, even this is hard to control) but because of free will, they'll respond to those opportunities differently. One path will lead to the major faster, one might not lead to the major at all.

Oftentimes when people say something "isn't fair" they're looking for equality of result. That's almost never a realistic expectation.

If a major is your goal, look at those that have gone before you, seek out some of the opportunities that did and you might find out that's more effective than coming to a forum to say life isn't fair.

jethikoki

Great advice and thanks. I think enough has already been said and to continue seems to cause more discord which is not my intention. I hope everyone will achieve the goals they seek!

p3dnow

Do yourself a favor and go to commute air or Envoy do you get a direct slow to the majors. You can always reapply to Delta later from those carries if you like. Lots of poaching going on. Endeavor used to be good in the first 4 years but the last 2 years have been with bad middle and lower management.