Pinnacle=Endeavor Air
06-01-2013, 09:16 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by cencal83406
You mean like walking in to the SLI negotiation with a notepad vs reams of data that XJ had. Yeah, smart guys. They were bested before it even started. Why do you bother asking them - talk to the other folks who were in negotiations against them how terribly prepared they were. JH is a grade A d-nozzle. He fought for the top 300. That's it. That's why we haven't upgraded, not because of XJ or 9L guys. 5+ year FOs have JH and gang to thank. But, I would never ever take it out on fellow crew from our pre-merger airlines because they had no hand in the SLI.
06-01-2013, 10:44 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,904
Originally Posted by mooney
do the math, I believe you are a DOH preachee. See how many 9e guys would be worse off with DOH or with relative. Cencal, you'd have BUTTLOADS of 10-11 year XJ guys that got royally shafted and are near your seniority or junior to you, absolutely senior to you. Like I said, talk to them in person. Not a cousin of a friend of Wychor or Wychor himself. OR just look at XJ's massively senior DOH and you do the math. What JH did benefitted MORE 9e guys than DOH or relative.
As for Hunta, I talked to him on the phone. His own words were that the -900 category was 'our worst case scenario.' You have to ask yourself, whose worst scenario? Certainly not mine. His actions proved that he was interested in preserving only the senior side, and even he failed once Bloch gave the -900 its own category. I used to be a hothead against Mesaba when the dispute was filed, until one XJ pilot actually sent me the email chain between the 9E/XJ/9L group and Bloch in regards to the SLI class date vs DOH issue. All I will say is that the XJ group was factual and 9E guys were full of crap. I was assured by Hunta that the class date issue was already addressed and fixed, yet, in that email chain, Bloch's response was (and I quote): 'John, can you clarify this for me.' It proved Bloch was clueless and the class date vs DOH was NEVER fixed as it should have been. The Mesaba dispute was therefore legitimate. The 9E team was unprepared and incompetent.
06-01-2013, 08:56 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: The Parlor
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
I'm writing this only to correct from a factual standpoint. 9E guys would have been better off with DOH, because the XJ version of DOH did not have the quotas/restrictions that the Bloch award put out. DOH would have been better, with people bidding what they could hold without regards to quotas. Yes XJ had tons of pilots in the 10-11 year mark, and guess what, I'd have no qualms about them being senior because they were hired first. For regionals, DOH is the fairest you can get. Instead of this POS Bloch award where some Colgan pilot named Nikolai born in '88 and hired in early '08 gets to be approx 1350ish out of nearly 3000 when the list came out. That's a bunch of BS and a windfall for Colgan. Not to mention, as the Colgan guys came from the Q props (which if you recall during SLI, many of them said they had no interest in the jets - they lied and went for the money grab), they were replaced by other Colgan pilots because of the 193 quota. Only a very small portion of XJ/9E pilots got awarded a Q, and those you could count on with probably one hand. Mooney, at the regional level, you can understand that DOH is fair. If tomorrow a XJ pilot hired in 2006 gets an upgrade, you can't really flip out or get upset as a 2007 DOH pilot. That is the seniority based system, he was hired first. Yeah, yeah I know seniority shouldn't be confused with longevity, but don't throw longevity in an argument when their airline doesn't even exist today. Most pilots that are upset at the Bloch award are upset because pilots physically junior to them are holding positions far better than they can, and the quotas only make it worse. I did the math in my own position for DOH versus what the bloch award was. DOH would have been slightly better, but the biggest gain would be the fairness in it all with no silly quotas or restrictions.
As for Hunta, I talked to him on the phone. His own words were that the -900 category was 'our worst case scenario.' You have to ask yourself, whose worst scenario? Certainly not mine. His actions proved that he was interested in preserving only the senior side, and even he failed once Bloch gave the -900 its own category. I used to be a hothead against Mesaba when the dispute was filed, until one XJ pilot actually sent me the email chain between the 9E/XJ/9L group and Bloch in regards to the SLI class date vs DOH issue. All I will say is that the XJ group was factual and 9E guys were full of crap. I was assured by Hunta that the class date issue was already addressed and fixed, yet, in that email chain, Bloch's response was (and I quote): 'John, can you clarify this for me.' It proved Bloch was clueless and the class date vs DOH was NEVER fixed as it should have been. The Mesaba dispute was therefore legitimate. The 9E team was unprepared and incompetent.
As for Hunta, I talked to him on the phone. His own words were that the -900 category was 'our worst case scenario.' You have to ask yourself, whose worst scenario? Certainly not mine. His actions proved that he was interested in preserving only the senior side, and even he failed once Bloch gave the -900 its own category. I used to be a hothead against Mesaba when the dispute was filed, until one XJ pilot actually sent me the email chain between the 9E/XJ/9L group and Bloch in regards to the SLI class date vs DOH issue. All I will say is that the XJ group was factual and 9E guys were full of crap. I was assured by Hunta that the class date issue was already addressed and fixed, yet, in that email chain, Bloch's response was (and I quote): 'John, can you clarify this for me.' It proved Bloch was clueless and the class date vs DOH was NEVER fixed as it should have been. The Mesaba dispute was therefore legitimate. The 9E team was unprepared and incompetent.
06-01-2013, 09:20 PM
#66
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by mooney
do the math, I believe you are a DOH preachee. See how many 9e guys would be worse off with DOH or with relative. Cencal, you'd have BUTTLOADS of 10-11 year XJ guys that got royally shafted and are near your seniority or junior to you, absolutely senior to you. Like I said, talk to them in person. Not a cousin of a friend of Wychor or Wychor himself. OR just look at XJ's massively senior DOH and you do the math. What JH did benefitted MORE 9e guys than DOH or relative.
06-01-2013, 09:30 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 828
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Not quite, there were a lot more Colgan guys that went ahead in seniority than XJ guys who got shafted because of the category distribution. The snapshot method in determining the category distributions Bloch used was a total fraud on the pilot group here. DOH would have prevented this mess, as Pinnacle was way understaffed when the snapshot was taken. To add insult to injury, Colgan's snapshot was taken, not in the present like the other two airlines, but at some fantasy future state that never existed. As a result, 250+ Pinnacle pilots lost out on their chance to upgrade in the past two years.
All PNCL (ENDVR) pilots need to grow up and leave it at the main cabin door.
06-02-2013, 04:08 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Not quite, there were a lot more Colgan guys that went ahead in seniority than XJ guys who got shafted because of the category distribution. The snapshot method in determining the category distributions Bloch used was a total fraud on the pilot group here. DOH would have prevented this mess, as Pinnacle was way understaffed when the snapshot was taken. To add insult to injury, Colgan's snapshot was taken, not in the present like the other two airlines, but at some fantasy future state that never existed. As a result, 250+ Pinnacle pilots lost out on their chance to upgrade in the past two years.
06-02-2013, 04:37 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by Gearswinger
It's time to let it go. It won't change and the continued animosity between the pilot groups only hurts us all.
