How do you decide what we "deserve"?

PT6flyer tried to explain that to you but you missed the point.

We as Airline Pilots don't "deserve" anything, we get what we are able to NEGOTIATE.

There is no costing model used by our negiotators or by the company's negotiators that includes a "deserve" model.

The Company says "if we give you these rates/rules it will cost us XX Million." The Union says "we disagree, we think these rates/rules will net a YY million change" ...etc ...etc

You know how to get NO WHERE with negotiations within a business??

Try to bring "deserve" to the table.

That's not a thing.

I think our negiotators have done a GREAT job getting a temporary bonus into a permanent pay rate.

If you disagree, that's your right.



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You really think Delta will negotiate TA 2.0?

I don't.

Fair enough, fortunately, winning the argument wasn't on my agenda, but to make sure my math was right, and so people can stop throwing around the tantrum " now I need to credit 83", instead of realizing its 77, 78 or whatever their new payrate requires.

Personally, I don't think so either, the time to ***** and moan was before we had a TA.

You may be right.

My point was in a dream world where they DO come back to the table, how long does it take to negotiate 2.0? A year? So October 2018, at which point we're back against the wall on the bonus expiration in January 2019.

Guys who think negotiating at that point with the bonus expiration right around the corner is better than now are CRAZY.

Dude, you just leave your dark room to come spew your venomous thoughts here. Nobody is in fatasy land, did you get the math ? Rather, can you ? It is a paycut of $2250 a year at min guarantee. Everybody knows that. And no, not counting per diem or 401k. I am not going to argue how easy it is to make up for that, or go way more than that, because that ends up nowhere. So lets agree it is a paycut, lets say extra 10 cents of perdiem doesnt give an extra $300 a year, and 401k is all a myth. Unfortunately for you, people are still willing to trade all these losses off for a pay rate that is way above industry average, at least for now. Because most pilots credit enough to break even, or a little above.
So typing paycut with exclamation signs in every post ain't gonna help you.

Yep.

We are paid by the minute and every minute I go over is more money in my pocket with the TA.

And another thing is how long are people going to have to live on this massive "pay cut" until their anniversary date puts them over what they would have been making anyway?

I see it differently.

Delta is offering us to go along with their ride and prosper with them.

If you slap their hand they like to teach people where they actually stand.

Their negotiating stance is that they hold all the cards and you have nothing. (Delta pilots can buck this stance because they actually do have some cards)

They want us to fly 700's and we are getting additional 900's. They can change that and just let our 200's go away without shifting any of those other aircraft from where they are now.

Then we are fat on pilots.

They don't renew the bonus and wait for section 6 negotiations in 2020. Stretch it out as long as they like.

At that point they can play hard ball or soft ball whatever suits them.

They own the balls.

And just as a disclaimer:

If this wasn't a good deal I'd tell them to pound sand, but that's not the case.

This is a good deal.

It's exactly what we wanted, bonus to hard pay rates and some extras thrown in.

How can anyone predict what the MIGHTY Delta will do and what their timeline would be? I mean what’s their bottom line, do they have a plan B? When I commute, I usually always have a plan B because things don’t always go as planned. Just to give one example. And I’m pretty sure Delta doesn’t Delta doesn’t put all their eggs in one basket either. Would you? I mean, if you were building a house and contractors were scarce would you let the one you wanted bully you into paying a lot more than you wanted to? Or would you keep searching for other alternatives? It’s a business, and Delta is also responsible to their shareholders. They are not going to throw out more than they feel they need to right now. Why, because things change? How much more can the non-wholly owned airlines offer? At some point things will start to plateau, and Delta probably doesn’t want to be too much above that if things start to level off. I feel pretty confident that if they need to throw more at us in the future, they will. Just my humble opinion