Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2457825)

IMO that should have never been grieved. The company's interpretation is fair. Turn a reserve pilot back a second time or JM a pilot into a day off. I don't see why this is a big deal. Seems pretty straight forward.

Now if you want to talk about inadequate staffing levels then you have something.

Yep they stopped flow and new hires. They are sticking it to EVERYONE. All airlines that had pilots selected to go to AA during most of the last half of this year got screwed by AA. I hate it when AA sticks it to everyone like that.

Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2457348)

Naw man, I've left Envoy. Done my time there. At LCC now making 164/hr in the left seat of the bus. There are things that could be better but I'll take it over $69 to $73/hour at Envoy is where I would be.

If you are thinking you are one of those getting a 5 or 6 year flow, might want to revisit that with your personal figuring and compare that with the company and the union. Lost decade...sure. That has an effect. It's not in the multi years though. A guy hired today is probably a bit over 8 years to wait, maybe a bit longer.

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 2457648)

I am speculating, but once hiring kicks into high gear, market forces will cause ** to renegotiate the flow number back up to the rate at the Protected Pilots, 25 per month.

Originally Posted by Jersdawg (Post 2457546)

Not possible with those group 1 pay rates. You being withheld from another status?

Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 2457648)

You are correct, that is what the contract says, beyond the Protected Pilots.

I am speculating, but once hiring kicks into high gear, market forces will cause AA to renegotiate the flow number back up to the rate at the Protected Pilots, 25 per month.

Anticipated sustained hiring in a few years for the 6 majors (per Boeing press release which matches up with current hiring rates at the majors increased for the increased retirements) will be about 6,000 a year.

The military retirements are about 1,000 a year, so drop that number to 5,000. Recognize some get hired from other sources. Knock another 1,000 off this, make it 4,000. The regionals are about 20,000.

So again, with a bit of math, the hiring rate from the regionals will be about 20,000 / 4,000 per year = 5 years. I have a hard time believing AA will leave flows at 12 years. The market forces will push them to about match this. Otherwise, W.O. recruiting will go to pot.

Again, you may have a different opinion.

Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2457348)

Naw man, I've left Envoy. Done my time there. At LCC now making 164/hr in the left seat of the bus.

Originally Posted by SheepDogg (Post 2458101)

To be clear, you were fired from Envoy. With good reason, so I am told. You clearly haven’t learned from the experience.