Airline Pilot Central Forums
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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)
-   -   Jump The Flow (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/111572-jump-flow.html)

Pedro4President 02-19-2018 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by 35Right (Post 2532257)
I believe the consnsus thought is that AAG believes the flow is enough of an incentive for recruitment without needing to increase pay, except that the flow isnt working as promised....which means lower pay AND long time flow.

If the flow worked as intended, it would be an advantage. Thats just my understanding from reading these forums lately.
Apparently you weren't here before Fall of 16. We had maybe 5-20 per class. 5-6 year upgrades. 4 year reserve. No commuter hotels. No movement. Bases closed. They increased pay and now they have more new hires then they can handle. We ran out of FOs to upgrade. AA doesn't need to raise pay to attract NHs. An argument could be made that we need to raise pay to attract 1000 hour 121 pilots. But why raise pay across the board when you can raise short term bonuses? Once our massive NH classes get 1000 hours they won't need the HVA bonus.

Seaplane 02-20-2018 03:01 AM
Another thread start just to discuss the same ole flow B.S. and blah blah blah. And blah.

ORDinary 02-20-2018 03:16 AM
Originally Posted by 35Right (Post 2532257)
If the flow worked as intended, it would be an advantage.
The flow is working as intended. It was intended to get people in the door at envoy despite lower pay, and keep them from leaving.

Pedro4President 02-20-2018 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by ORDinary (Post 2532673)
The flow is working as intended. It was intended to get people in the door at envoy despite lower pay, and keep them from leaving.
See I think the last part holds more weight than the first part. If I had to be honest I would be much more aggressive about getting hired at anything but a regional. However since the flow is "relatively" close and I live in DFW with all my family I really want AA for the DFW base. I don't see myself leaving to go to Spirit or even Southwest if my ultimate goal is AA. If I didn't have the flow I would take any offer from an LCC or major. I think local DFW guys feel the same. Especially 4-6 year guys.

itsmytime 02-20-2018 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by Seaplane (Post 2532663)
Another thread start just to discuss the same ole flow B.S. and blah blah blah. And blah.
Exactly. And as much as people try to claim it's worthless, and whatnot, all mgmt has to do is hop on the forums and see how much it's discussed to realize it's value.

Knobcrk1 02-20-2018 07:38 AM
Originally Posted by PilotDude72 (Post 2532242)
Long time lurker, first time poster.

My question to all you high speed Envoy pilots that are worried about the flow is, whats stopping you from getting what the major's want in a few years at Envoy and applying outside of the flow? Seems to me like doing this and having the flow as a sort of insurance plan would give Envoy a distinct advantage over other regionals.

Am I mistaken to assume that you have to opportunity at Envoy to make yourself a very marketable applicant to a major within 3-4 years?
Go back to the recruiting office they’re calling you. No more flow threads please it’s getting so old.

Knobcrk1 02-20-2018 07:40 AM
Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2532684)
See I think the last part holds more weight than the first part. If I had to be honest I would be much more aggressive about getting hired at anything but a regional. However since the flow is "relatively" close and I live in DFW with all my family I really want AA for the DFW base. I don't see myself leaving to go to Spirit or even Southwest if my ultimate goal is AA. If I didn't have the flow I would take any offer from an LCC or major. I think local DFW guys feel the same. Especially 4-6 year guys.
Spirit has a base in DFW and pays AA320 rates now.

Knobcrk1 02-20-2018 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by Seaplane (Post 2532663)
Another thread start just to discuss the same ole flow B.S. and blah blah blah. And blah.
Exactly...

jshoneycutt 02-20-2018 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by PilotDude72 (Post 2532242)
Long time lurker, first time poster.

My question to all you high speed Envoy pilots that are worried about the flow is, whats stopping you from getting what the major's want in a few years at Envoy and applying outside of the flow? Seems to me like doing this and having the flow as a sort of insurance plan would give Envoy a distinct advantage over other regionals.

Am I mistaken to assume that you have to opportunity at Envoy to make yourself a very marketable applicant to a major within 3-4 years?
The frustration at Envoy is hearing that AA wants more Envoy pilots in their new-hire classes and Envoy is not giving them up. Plenty of arguments to be made for and against opening the flow valve to match the demand.

450knotOffice 02-21-2018 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Knobcrk1 (Post 2532848)
Spirit has a base in DFW and pays AA320 rates now.
DFW base, yes. AA rates? Not even close with their new TA.


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