Cultural Rot at Envoy/AA
05-11-2018, 03:06 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
I saw that entire letter well before you posted it. It was written by a union base rep. Drama and strongly worded alarmist blasts sent out to the memebership is normal business at pretty much any airline. You should know that.
But you focused on that letter because it fits your continuing narrative.
As for your second point, few people would say one cannot post in any sub-forum they choose. Why not? The thing is, though, that most people will mix it up a bit. I post in many sub forums - AA, Envoy, Alaska, SkyWest, the General sections below the main sub forums, etc. the thing is, though, you ONLY post about Envoy. As far as I can tell, you post about nothing else. That seems obsessive to me and to many here.
But you focused on that letter because it fits your continuing narrative.
As for your second point, few people would say one cannot post in any sub-forum they choose. Why not? The thing is, though, that most people will mix it up a bit. I post in many sub forums - AA, Envoy, Alaska, SkyWest, the General sections below the main sub forums, etc. the thing is, though, you ONLY post about Envoy. As far as I can tell, you post about nothing else. That seems obsessive to me and to many here.
05-11-2018, 07:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: A-320 CA
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by ag386
Goskers, ryanp and company just have a hard time that someone abandoned Envoy and the flow for a supposed bottom feeder like Allegiant.
They also claimed I was fired. I rebutted that several times as I resigned with 2 weeks notice and was marked rehireable at Envoy. It didn't fit their narrative so they continued to say that I was.
I am going to admit at purposely being a few months off on my hiring at Envoy and Allegiant in order to protect my identity from the yapping Envoy hyenas here. As you can see, I'm important enough for them to research years worth of posts.
In the end though, that's my history and I've been fortunate to have been hired at Delta and am grateful. My purpose here initially was to point out the advantages of a carrier like Allegiant, Spirit, etc. After all, it got me hired at Delta while goskers and ryanp have to rely on the flow.
They also claimed I was fired. I rebutted that several times as I resigned with 2 weeks notice and was marked rehireable at Envoy. It didn't fit their narrative so they continued to say that I was.
I am going to admit at purposely being a few months off on my hiring at Envoy and Allegiant in order to protect my identity from the yapping Envoy hyenas here. As you can see, I'm important enough for them to research years worth of posts.
In the end though, that's my history and I've been fortunate to have been hired at Delta and am grateful. My purpose here initially was to point out the advantages of a carrier like Allegiant, Spirit, etc. After all, it got me hired at Delta while goskers and ryanp have to rely on the flow.
05-13-2018, 08:37 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by ag386
Someone on the American thread posted the info below. It started out stating some information about the company culture and then went into the problems the AA pilots are having with their union. I only copied the information regarding the company.
In my time at Envoy, I saw the "company culture" as described below X 2. Eagle/Envoy has always been a punitive company and never one who tries incentives. In other words, they are a "stick only" company. Never any carrot. It's increasingly obvious that the culture has only degraded there beyond where it was with the previous AMR regime.
AA's status has been cheapened with US Airways taking over. From the cheap looking signage and new aircraft livery, nasty customer service and overall poisonous atmosphere, it's worth noting here that AA pilots have many of the same issues as Envoy pilots do.
Flow is good if that's the only way you can move on to better things but it's advisable to keep trying hard to get out of this "too big to fail" corporation.
By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.
After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.
Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.
A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.
In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.
In my time at Envoy, I saw the "company culture" as described below X 2. Eagle/Envoy has always been a punitive company and never one who tries incentives. In other words, they are a "stick only" company. Never any carrot. It's increasingly obvious that the culture has only degraded there beyond where it was with the previous AMR regime.
AA's status has been cheapened with US Airways taking over. From the cheap looking signage and new aircraft livery, nasty customer service and overall poisonous atmosphere, it's worth noting here that AA pilots have many of the same issues as Envoy pilots do.
Flow is good if that's the only way you can move on to better things but it's advisable to keep trying hard to get out of this "too big to fail" corporation.
By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.
After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.
Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.
A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.
In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.
05-13-2018, 02:37 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,094
I worked for a US Airways Express carrier and often commuted on Eagle. I was hired at US with the merger am now at AA.
Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.
Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.
As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.
By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.
I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.
Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.
Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.
As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.
By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.
I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.
05-13-2018, 04:33 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Position: 6th place
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by Name User
I worked for a US Airways Express carrier and often commuted on Eagle. I was hired at US with the merger am now at AA.
Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.
Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.
As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.
By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.
I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.
Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.
Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.
As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.
By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.
I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.
100% agree. We make damn good money (I’d happily take more though) and we are treated well.
This job is amazing and I’m very thankful to have it. I hope it stays this way for a long time.
05-14-2018, 09:21 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: E175
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
No mystery to me, the only reason people are willing to fly for the regionals at all in many cases is because of the promise of an underworked, overpaid job at XYZ major airline.
05-14-2018, 10:16 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: EMB145 CA
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
No mystery to me, the only reason people are willing to fly for the regionals at all in many cases is because of the promise of an underworked, overpaid job at XYZ major airline.
05-14-2018, 11:53 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: Resigned
Posts: 1,547
Originally Posted by Aviatrx
I think that majors deserve everything they are paid and more. Yes, this job seems easy once you learn how to do it. A good pilot is essential to the success of the airline, and there are a whole lot of high paying customers on board. Most of said pilots work very hard and fly trans cons through the night. That being said, there are the home based reserves who can get away with working very little, and the wide body FO’s who what movies and sleep for half the flight, but I wouldn’t say they are the majority. Please be careful not to cheapen the job we work hard to get
lol
05-14-2018, 03:29 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
You're right, both regional and major airline pilots are paid appropriately and commensurately relative to the amount of work they do. Low regional pay is in no way subsidized by "pay in experience" towards a position at a major airline.
lol
lol
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