blizzue

Joe gets hired at Allegiant and comes to preach about how the flow is only good if you can't get hired anywhere else...

RyanP

Hah, no kidding.

I couldn't get hired elsewhere off the street even as a check airman. *At a Legacy carrier that I actually wanted to work for that is*. Now currently working at AA anyway, whether they wanted to hire me or not, haha, due to flow, and I am based at home. Paid Eagle dues. Flow worked contrary to garbage posted on the internet. Took a while but I have my seniority number now at the worlds largest airline before the biggest pilot retirement wave in history. Not a terrible place to be IMO. Envoy sucks, no denying it. All regionals suck. At least Envoy people have a backup plan B to get to a Legacy carrier. That does work.

PS, when I got hired at Eagle a little over a decade ago there was NO flow agreement for us, so counting that time to flow seems kind of stupid anyway, we just had flow backs from AA working at Eagle from a prior agreement that didn't apply to us and no promise of anything except $23/hr and a kick in the nuts regularly. Until what, something like 2012 when they gave us that deal? A Lot of BS happened in between back then and now, very few people hired for several years, there was a bankruptcy, consolidation, and all kinds of mess. That flow time will drop rapidly again. Just like the big drop from 2004-2007 with nobody hired. We went from 16 yrs on property to 11 yrs to flow overnight when it hit that gap. Another BIG drop in time will happen again when it hits the next hiring gaps. That's how it drops to 6-8 yrs. Again, despite BS internet beliefs. Seniority list says it all. Look at the hire dates/numbers. Do the math. Not that hard.

I guess I could have gotten hired at a turdbox like Allegiant years ago too since they called me incessantly from an app I put in back in like 2007 but why would I want to do that? Then I'd never get to AA.. well maybe I would one day in like 2034 after 12000 more flows/military pilots are hired and The pool is completely dried up. Then I could sit at the bottom of the stagnant seniority list for a couple years until retirement.

ag386

Ryan, I’m sorry you were trapped in the lost decade and your Envoy resume wasn’t good enough to get you in the door at a legacy. Flowing through is a nice consolation prize.

I wouldn’t knock a career at Allegiant or any LCC for that matter. The lifestyle and pay far exceed the pay, QOL and abuse you suffer at Envoy. I was completely prepared to spend a career here. I got hired at a time when upgrades were under a year so I upgraded and got 500 PIC.

I have continued to aggressively pursue United, Delta and Southwest in the meantime and finally landed a Delta interview 2 weeks ago and have been hired. I am in my 2 week notice period here now.

Perhaps consider leaving the arrogant attitude at home and maybe someone besides Allegiant would have contacted you.

Allegheny

Speaking of scheduling issues; AA has just recently gone to PBS. Legacy AA and US East were the last hold outs on line bidding. Every other major had PBS. AWA had PBS.



The AA flight attendants are still not under a single bidding system. AA has made some major screw ups with scheduling. There is a learning curve and the reserve language in the contract is ambiguous at best.



Napoleon once said; "Never ascribe to malice that which is
adequately explained by incompetence." That defines AA scheduling. How else do you give all the block holders all their ability to drop all their Christmas trips??


The culture is made worse, in my opinion, by the way upper management compensates line management. They are heavily weighted on a bonus system. Parker is a spread sheet guy and he believes in measurable metrics. On time push, miss-handled baggage, crew sick calls, fuel use, etc. There has to be a measurable metric so he can rate you with your peers.



This is why agents will close the doors early and leave non-revs behind. Thy are afraid of being late and then they are in trouble with their manager because his bonus is tied to his on-time performance. Chief pilots are the front line defense on sick calls from pilots but not all chief pilots are skilled in interpersonal communication.



My last F/O said that when he returned from furlough, the first thing the DCA chief pilot told him he lived to far away from base. There was no fixed report time in the contract but that doesn't stop the chief pilots from giving you their opinion. No-contacts, late or no commutes, late check-ins, sick calls immediately prior to sign in are all measurable issues and so the chief pilots are aggressive on these issues.


One problem with this concept of accountability is that it promotes blame shifting wherever possible. If you can blame another department, then it doesn't count. I have had agents beg me to call maintenance over a very small issue so that they don't have to take the delay; even when it wasn't really a maintenance issue. (There are no points deducted for a maintenance delay.)



In order for the culture of AA to change they will have to change how they compensate line management on the bonus issue. The bonuses are big, a chief pilot may earn an extra $60K for perceived good performance. However there is no incentive to do a team approach to anything across departments under the current system.

go skers

According to your post history, you were hired at Envoy in May 2013 even though there were no May 2013 hires on the list at Envoy at the time and stayed until mid 2016 (according to you) and went to Allegiant and magically got 500 TPIC even though upgrades haven't hit you supposed hire date. With your imaginary 500 TPIC and imaginary position at Allegiant you now want us to believe that you're now going to your imaginary position at Delta?

If you're going to do a long term imaginary timeline as an imaginary pilot at least make it realistic.

NoValueAviator

You audited 500 posts going back half a decade, with add'l research on various co. upgrade times, hiring etc?

Airport stby? Not criticizing or praising it, just in awe sort of. I assume if the dates did match up you'd probably know the guy's name. Something to think about when you post anything that could be even remotely personally identifying around here.

450knotOffice

What a stupid thing to say on so many levels. Your OWN arrogance and ignorance will be staring right back at you when you look in that mirror.

On a different note, looking back at your post history as far back as I can go - five pages - you literally have posted ONLY about Envoy. No Allegiant, no Delta, no UAL. NO general discussion areas. No Safety. Nothing but Envoy. What is your crazy obsession with Envoy? I mean, considering there are multiple other boards you can post on, and you stick with Envoy, I'd consider you rather obsessed.

I'm also thinking you are a pathological liar with a vendetta.

ag386

Goskers, ryanp and company just have a hard time that someone abandoned Envoy and the flow for a supposed bottom feeder like Allegiant.

They also claimed I was fired. I rebutted that several times as I resigned with 2 weeks notice and was marked rehireable at Envoy. It didn't fit their narrative so they continued to say that I was.

I am going to admit at purposely being a few months off on my hiring at Envoy and Allegiant in order to protect my identity from the yapping Envoy hyenas here. As you can see, I'm important enough for them to research years worth of posts.

In the end though, that's my history and I've been fortunate to have been hired at Delta and am grateful. My purpose here initially was to point out the advantages of a carrier like Allegiant, Spirit, etc. After all, it got me hired at Delta while goskers and ryanp have to rely on the flow.

go skers

I remember being really excited when the original flow award dropped. Even though it only included around 1200 pilots at the time it guaranteed movement off the top. At other large regionals like Republic and SKYW or even Endeavor if you don't get hired you start to stagnate on the CA list with other guys in similar situations. Constant movement at the top of the list benefits everyone and opens up more jobs in either the training center or the LCA ranks as guys naturally leave for flow or other opportunities.

Even at bare minimum flow rates for guys hired after 2014 flushing out the protected pilots even a few months faster will be good for everyone on the list and I believe we'll see guys hired from 2015-2017 consistently hit flow times in less than 6 years. If flow times start to trend the wrong direction I bet some negotiating capital could be used to make adjustments just like the 824 and protected pilot agreements were improved over time through grievance settlements and contract negotiations.

As things are currently set up the flow through works well for pilots who want to wait for flow and for pilots who want to get career advancement elsewhere while still making consistent seniority gains while they wait at Envoy

ag386

Take note. The cultural rot message of this thread was originally posted by an AA pilot. I brought it here so that potential Envoy recruits would be aware of the company vibe.

Also take note. As soon as I post something true like this, the salesmen and recruiters come out of the woodwork.

Are you as a flow through at AA now also concerned with Envoy threads? I can ask you the same question. What are you doing here?