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-   -   Future on non-wholly owned (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/113754-future-non-wholly-owned.html)

flyguy727 05-21-2018 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by The Unsub (Post 2595607)
I call BS on this. airlines will always pick the lowest bidder to save money. Isom is trying to sugar coat the wholly owned airlines to keep people in seats chasing an 8+ year flow while better opportunities are out there in this hiring market.

It's not going to be a matter of lowest bidder. The pipeline of pilots is starting to grow thin. Which means there is a shortage of pilots going to the regional. It's already begun with great lakes. Over the up coming years you'll start regional cutting back on flying, some even filling for bankruptcy. Wholly own will be the last to survive, but eventually they fall pray to the shortage as well.

NoValueAviator 05-22-2018 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by flyguy727 (Post 2599372)
It's not going to be a matter of lowest bidder. The pipeline of pilots is starting to grow thin. Which means there is a shortage of pilots going to the regional. It's already begun with great lakes. Over the up coming years you'll start regional cutting back on flying, some even filling for bankruptcy. Wholly own will be the last to survive, but eventually they fall pray to the shortage as well.

I don't think so man. A major bankruptcy or two will happen and then we'll see the 1500 hour rule "revised" by congress and hundreds of thousands of 300 hour FO's willing to fly for free and with an automatic diversity flow through to the majors pouring in. We need to enjoy the demand > supply situation when it comes to our labor while we can. It's one legislative sea change away from being over in a big way, and rolling back to $10/hr starting pay, no QOL, brutal onesided contract negotiations, and only a lottery shot of getting a call from the majors for FWM.

flyguy727 05-22-2018 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by NoValueAviator (Post 2599640)
I don't think so man. A major bankruptcy or two will happen and then we'll see the 1500 hour rule "revised" by congress and hundreds of thousands of 300 hour FO's willing to fly for free and with an automatic diversity flow through to the majors pouring in. We need to enjoy the demand > supply situation when it comes to our labor while we can. It's one legislative sea change away from being over in a big way, and rolling back to $10/hr starting pay, no QOL, brutal onesided contract negotiations, and only a lottery shot of getting a call from the majors for FWM.

The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Cyio 05-23-2018 04:44 AM


Originally Posted by flyguy727 (Post 2600032)
The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Why would you hope he is right? That would be about the worst thing to happen and thankfully, ALPA was able to keep that provision of lowering the hours out of the new FAA Reauthorization Bill, at least for now. Believe me, Congress, or at least certain members are actively trying to get us out of the equation for their corporate overlords.

Several reps did manage to sneak in a provision for testing and research of single pilot cargo operations, which is bad news. Hopefully ALPA can again challenge this attempt to undermine our labor force.

NoValueAviator 05-23-2018 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by flyguy727 (Post 2600032)
The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Well, I hope you're right.

Av8rPHX 05-29-2018 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by bigtime209 (Post 2596025)
It goes through the end of next year. My understanding is that their performance has been good.



It has actually been the top performing Eagle carrier.


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bigtime209 05-29-2018 02:22 PM


Originally Posted by Av8rPHX (Post 2604813)
It has actually been the top performing Eagle carrier.


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While I don't deny the good performance, everyone claims that they're the best eagle carrier- Envoy, Compass, Republic, PSA, etc.... I'd love to see some data that breaks down each carrier's performance. Do you have any data that specifically shows Compass is THE best?

Bigpimppilot 05-29-2018 02:59 PM

My belief that isn’t founded in anything believes that as long as any “partner” eagle can do most of their commitment then aag will not cut their legs out from under them. Unless that partner gets bought out by delta. Then all bets are off

bigtime209 05-29-2018 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot (Post 2604845)
My belief that isn’t founded in anything believes that as long as any “partner” eagle can do most of their commitment then aag will not cut their legs out from under them. Unless that partner gets bought out by delta. Then all bets are off

If a wholly owned carrier can handle the commitment of flying that a contract carrier is flying, then AAG will have a WO carrier take it. AAG gets to hold on to a larger cut of the profit with a WO carrier than having it farmed out. BUT....the big question mark is staffing at the WO.

NoValueAviator 05-29-2018 05:06 PM

Performance isn't apples to apples anyway. Of course a carrier with newer, better maintained equipment and operating out of less dysfunctional hubs is going to have better performance.


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