Here Comes Swayne
10-15-2018 | 10:11 AM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
Age has nothing to do with the interview invitation process at AA. Even flight experience doesn’t play that big a role since everyone getting selected is “competitive” in some way.
Mil guys are competitive due to their background.
Some people are competitive due to their connections...family and close friends on the seniority list (bonus points if they are in management). This is big since you’re a known quantity.
Someone like Swayne brings unique qualities to the table because of his enthusiasm for aviation, and how he creatively tries to help educate his peers about aviation. Yes, recruiting managers notice this type of attitude. He is also likely well networked.
Just saying, “I’m a 40 year old who is well-qualified” isn’t “competitive”. You need an edge to stand out from 10,000 resumes (over half of which probably update regularly). The 20-something year old getting hired probably has an edge (that may have nothing to do with volume of flight experience).
The majors can be picky. They can invite friends and family before unknowns. They can prefer mil experience. They can invite the guy with the YouTube site or the person who volunteers on weekends.
There is no such fantasy world as “yeah, but assuming all things being equal”. Life isn’t equal (or fair). Anyone wanting to get hired needs to get noticed. My first questions to people complaining about not being able to jump the flow or get hired off the street are:
Have you ever physically stopped by AA recruitment at the Flight Academy to introduce yourself and ask to speak with a recruiter?
Have you ever stopped by the APA headquarters to see if any AA Union pilots would be willing to provide some wise counsel.
Do you ever get a business card from AA guys you jumpseat with and offer to buy them a coffee to talk about Pilot stuff or strategies for getting hired. I’ve met AA guys who mentor other pilots and even students getting their certificates.
Did you attend the AA virtual job fair on Pilot Credentials he other day? I heard that many people who did one-on-one sessions with a recruiter during the fair got invites.
Too many people are just looking for excuses like age discrimination. You HAVE to play the game to get hired outside of flow.
Mil guys are competitive due to their background.
Some people are competitive due to their connections...family and close friends on the seniority list (bonus points if they are in management). This is big since you’re a known quantity.
Someone like Swayne brings unique qualities to the table because of his enthusiasm for aviation, and how he creatively tries to help educate his peers about aviation. Yes, recruiting managers notice this type of attitude. He is also likely well networked.
Just saying, “I’m a 40 year old who is well-qualified” isn’t “competitive”. You need an edge to stand out from 10,000 resumes (over half of which probably update regularly). The 20-something year old getting hired probably has an edge (that may have nothing to do with volume of flight experience).
The majors can be picky. They can invite friends and family before unknowns. They can prefer mil experience. They can invite the guy with the YouTube site or the person who volunteers on weekends.
There is no such fantasy world as “yeah, but assuming all things being equal”. Life isn’t equal (or fair). Anyone wanting to get hired needs to get noticed. My first questions to people complaining about not being able to jump the flow or get hired off the street are:
Have you ever physically stopped by AA recruitment at the Flight Academy to introduce yourself and ask to speak with a recruiter?
Have you ever stopped by the APA headquarters to see if any AA Union pilots would be willing to provide some wise counsel.
Do you ever get a business card from AA guys you jumpseat with and offer to buy them a coffee to talk about Pilot stuff or strategies for getting hired. I’ve met AA guys who mentor other pilots and even students getting their certificates.
Did you attend the AA virtual job fair on Pilot Credentials he other day? I heard that many people who did one-on-one sessions with a recruiter during the fair got invites.
Too many people are just looking for excuses like age discrimination. You HAVE to play the game to get hired outside of flow.
10-15-2018 | 10:15 AM
#152
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Why can’t the whole pilot group have this privilege? https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo2c5IlAUA0/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1iufr5qy0csws
10-15-2018 | 10:40 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
You are saying it's not. Why not? You guys keep bringing emotions in to it. It's not about that.
A. Burden of proof requirement is not an argument pro or against. It's merely a statement that one would need to prove the claim. Sure, absolutely. But at any rate, let's say it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. For the sake of the argument.
B. Fair point except I deliberately excluded from my hypothetical example any other factors as they are unknown and therefore subjective. But to make it clearer, let's say the sum of all unknown factors/points in each individual's application is equal.
So same question. Let's even go further in order to isolate ourselves from any prejudice of our knowledge of how the airline recruitment process works. Let's consider two applicants in some OTHER industry. Same known facts: one younger but less experienced, the other older but more experienced. Both have been pursuing this opportunity for equal amount of time, updating applications with equal frequency. All unknown factors cancel each other out. The younger applicant got an interview, the older applicant did not. (Hired or not is irrelevant). Ageism or not?
A. Burden of proof requirement is not an argument pro or against. It's merely a statement that one would need to prove the claim. Sure, absolutely. But at any rate, let's say it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. For the sake of the argument.
B. Fair point except I deliberately excluded from my hypothetical example any other factors as they are unknown and therefore subjective. But to make it clearer, let's say the sum of all unknown factors/points in each individual's application is equal.
So same question. Let's even go further in order to isolate ourselves from any prejudice of our knowledge of how the airline recruitment process works. Let's consider two applicants in some OTHER industry. Same known facts: one younger but less experienced, the other older but more experienced. Both have been pursuing this opportunity for equal amount of time, updating applications with equal frequency. All unknown factors cancel each other out. The younger applicant got an interview, the older applicant did not. (Hired or not is irrelevant). Ageism or not?
10-15-2018 | 02:41 PM
#155
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: FO SHO
Ive heard that you should put down that you are from a "insert perceived minority group here" on your application as what can they say in this day and age? Everyone is allowed to identify how they see fit. My DNA results showed that I am 1.5% African American, so I guess I qualify as placing that on my app.
10-15-2018 | 02:52 PM
#156
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Why can’t the whole pilot group have this privilege? https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo2c5IlA...=1iufr5qy0csws
10-15-2018 | 04:04 PM
#157
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,625
Likes: 0
Ive heard that you should put down that you are from a "insert perceived minority group here" on your application as what can they say in this day and age? Everyone is allowed to identify how they see fit. My DNA results showed that I am 1.5% African American, so I guess I qualify as placing that on my app.
