With the 70 DFL Vacancies and 105 DFE and 110 OFE Displacements do you see any junior DFL’s possibly getting displaced to maybe OFL?

For those of us on the outside looking in, please... DFL, DFE, OFE?

"D" for DFW-something, I'm guessing.

Ditto for "O" = ORD?

Many thanks!

The first letter represents base (MIA, DFW, or ORD)
The second letter is F for FO or C for CA
The third letter is E for E145 or L for E175

It is POSSIBLE, but with 290 total Captain vacancies that gives plenty of Captain spots for FOs to move into leaving fewer DFLs. I would say any OFLs that remain unfilled will, as in the past, just remain unfilled with new hires going there in future classes.

Seems like Envoy isn’t very good at regulating numbers. It seems to be all or nothing and then swing the other way when they figure out there is a shortage somewhere else.

When's this big bid going to close, and the results known?

It closed the 3rd. Runs on the 7th. Results probably 9th.

There was a class today…

-23 people
-4 Cadets with choice of OFL or DFL
-The rest had a choice of OFL, DFL, or OCL
-8 took OCL, the rest took a FO spot of O or D

So those with the time could choose whether or not to accept the captain position?

Also very curious, as there was no longer a standing vacancy for the OCL and none on the bid that just closed either. Seems like last time this happened there was a grievance.

It sounds like the ones that didn’t take the upgrade right away mostly chose that because they wanted DFW.

How often are they running classes? What was your wait time between orientation day and starting class?

That would depend on how many 121 hours you have. If you have 600+ hours of 121 your orientation will probably be around 2 weeks prior to your class date.

Can someone please breakdown the training footprint at Envoy? At my fingerprints, drug test, logbook review day, they told us 75 days from day 1 of class but didn't go into details. Just looking for a ballpark figure: X amount of weeks in class, VPT/FTD, sim (how many sessions?) Thanks.

So are they still putting cadets in classes or only 121?

I'll add, how long is the wait for I(OE)?
In my case, for DEC qualified individuals?

They said the same thing for us about a week ago. 72-75 days from day one. It appears DEC folks are getting awarded in class and will continue the same footprint as in little to no breaks in training to go out on 50 hours of OE and then you’re on your own.

Can we get numbers on the most recent class?

big class, all or almost all DECs - that's a "heard it from someone in the schoolhouse, ymmv"

Not trying to be annoying, but are they still giving out OCL?

Nope. DCL is it.

for now at least. Looking at the staffing numbers, I imagine there's a reshuffle in the near future
possibly to coincide with the PHX bid

Okay so what are the seniority numbers of the guys on the bottom of the OCL and DCL reserve lists today? I think I probably need to get back into a 121 PIC job in order to get the interviews that I actually want, but being based in ORD is a pretty high priority. Sort of a bad spot to be in b/c I know I'll have to sit reserve wherever I go, but I can be happy as long as I can do it in ORD.

Currently- newhire CA in DFW, 2 years on property MIA, 4 years - ORD. Again, this is very unusual, so anyone's guess what the next bid brings (besides PHX base)
If I had to guess, I'd say DFW got loaded up with CA in anticipation of some of them leaving for PHX. ORD was, historically, the junior base. Now - TBD.

Two pages ago it says the September 5th class was given a choice of ORD CA or FO or DFW FO, all on the E175. Perhaps they aren’t far enough along in training to show up on the list?

Looks like everyone in the 5 September class shows on the flow plan as either DFL for the first four, or DCL.

All of the CAs in that class that got awarded ORD got displaced to DFW.

ORD is senior right now, you have senior 145 pilots jumping to the 175 and displacing the most junior pilots here, makes the whole base senior. I think it will be that way for a while until everyone that wants to be at ORD can get it.

DFW is also seemingly enormous right now, probably staffed larger to handle the beginnings of the PHX flying.

Thanks everyone. This is similar to what I had heard a number of weeks ago from someone else outside of Envoy. I wanted to get a better answer from someone at the company. Hopefully, it's something that can be altogether avoided anyway if other options work out.

I can't offer first-hand knowledge but I have a trusted former colleqgue that recently finished training and provided some good insight so I'll share what I know. His e-mail to me posted with permission:


"Right now it is all direct-entry captains every class with a few FO exceptions, DFW based. That might change in 2 weeks. MIA is senior and ORD will be as well, for now. Everything is in flux right now with two major considerations in the company.... phasing out the E145 by the end of 2023 Q1, and gradually adding E175 PHX flying with the opening of the PHX base to be determined as more airplanes are delivered. They are committed to be a 200 airplane fleet so the growth is there. So many moving parts that nobody really knows who will end up where but the company has been as transparent as possible based upon the information they are given from AA for what flying needs to be covered. It sounds like once the company is satisfied that they have enough captains to cover the flying that American has given them, and they can get the E145 to E175 transition folks through the pipeline, the focus will turn back to cadets and FO hiring for those that need ATP-CTP. The training department right now simply cannot handle anything beyond getting captains on the line as quickly as possible and doing transition training.They are short instructors too. For someone that is a cadet and really wants to be at Envoy, just sit tight a few more months and they will be getting things in order. In the meantime it's critical coverage and everyone is maxxed out even on reserve."


My personal opinion on this pretty much mirrors the advice above. Sounds like Envoy is a great place to be right now so if you can stand a few extra months being put off by recruiting if you are low time. If not then there are plenty of options. If you are a DEC, this is probably a great option with all the money they are throwing at everybody. Everyone's situation is unique. What do those kids say nowadays, YMMV your mileage may vary or something like that. Trust me I'm no expert, I was teaching college students in a Florida CFI class and everyone wanted to go to Endeavor 6 months ago, but not so much anymore. Amazing how this industry changes so quickly.

Training Wait
 

Anyone have an idea of how the timeframe for INDOC? I've been waiting a while and have been told they have no idea when it will be available. Kinda sucks just waiting especially around the end of the year. I know other places are hiring and starting in weeks. Its been over a month now.

Ummm.... I think I just spelled it out for you in my post above and if I receive any other information I'll share it with you. I encourage you to reach out to your airline of choice, it sounds like Envoy is backed up as said above.

Envoy will likely not see two hundred planes and the pilots to fly them for a LONG time, maybe never again. As the 145s go away, there are only limited numbers of 170s to replace them. Envoy has a total of something less than 30 either on property or in the works to acquire. Those won’t come close to replacing the number of 145s leaving. That leaves the end state currently at about 135 planes and as I’ve said, there just aren’t enough 170 made to have a significant number of them available.to bump up those numbers. AAG is pretty much scoped out on large RJs, meaning that more 175s are not possible without something drastic happening, like Mesa losing its contract. But since Air Wisconsin already has a contract to fly CRJ 200s, there is still capacity at other AAG FFD carriers.

And to add insult to injury, Envoy just announced it is stifling the flow. Most have the position that reducing the flow will have a reverse effect on attrition. They may save four a month to flow, but will likely push other off the ledge if they thought of staying.

Well, what have been the last three weeks of classes? I assume all still high time 121/DEC coming into class?

I was in the Oct 6 orientation. There was 50 of us I believe, almost all DEC. They spread our orientation between the Oct 31 classes and Nov 14th. I think a couple guys went to the 16th class, but were cadets. So I’m guessing at least the next two are almost high time 121. I might be wrong though!

Did any actual classes start that day?

Hello All,

The above was from a post on 06 Oct.

Has the list of domiciles awarded to DEC's updated since then, and if not, when is the next time that it will, please?

I'm guessing that DFW is still where most new DEC's are being assigned?

Many thanks.

Nothing has changed. The thing that allows DECs to be hired is a standing vacancy for captains and without a new vacancy being run, which likely won’t be until beginning of January, maybe December, as the last one was a month early, they vacancy shouldn’t change.

Thanks for explaining this! I was unaware as to how often the vacancy bids were run... but it (now) makes sense.

Looks like there have been maybe two classes since the last posting about base assignments. Anyone know what base/seat breakdowns were?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Since they have only been hiring DECs and the vacancy is for DFW, I’d venture there is a VERY high likelihood they are all DCL, DFW 175 captain, and if there were any not a DEC, DFL, DFW 175 FO.

Until a new vacancy comes out (possibly end of November, end of December more likely) and changes that, or they run out of DECs (the more likely to happen first) that’s what it will be.

A class of 40 started yesterday 10/31. Only 175 DFW CA +FO and ORD FO offered.

8 DFL
3 OFL​​​​​​​
​​​​​​​29 DCL​​​​​​​