Check your PMs.

Nothing???

I know people hired between those years with only 200hrs. Reserve killing them.

Check now

Filler

So what is the current situation for people getting hired that already meet Captain minimums? Do you go through training as an FO and then immediately get forced into Captain upgrade on completion of FO training? Which aircraft and base would you expect at the moment?

Anyone mind describing that process, and how the bidding for equipment in training goes?

Thanks

No training as an FO, you will get displaced immediately into CA status during indoc. You will likely get either CRJ ORD or 145 ORD, 145 NYC is a possibility.

You can bid for whatever you want in training but your choice is irrelevant to you, you will be displaced based on company needs. You can still take away an available 175 slot if you want, lol.

Sorry but what does that mean?

If you select a 175 DFW/ORD slot in class, you will reduce the 175 slots offered to the rest of the class by one, but you will still wind up ORD CRJ/145 most likely.

Err? Not sure if other FOs can bid for OCC?

Good point, I guess the real question is how are they doing it now?

Are the Captain statuses on the board? When I was hired, they were not.

I guess I am terribly misunderstanding something. You said "If I select 175 I will reduce the 175 slots offered to the rest of the class by 1"... Well yes, that is the way seniority works.

What am I missing, and why would I end up going to the CRJ? I do understand CA CRJ is most junior, but I fail to understand what that has to do with the original question? Honestly, I only care about Envoy for the DFW base. I'm honestly only interested in my chance of getting DFW based, which the 175 seems best for. So, I guess, what are my chances of DEC being able to get awarded DEC as a new hire and also being able to hold DFW in that 175? Obviously there are no guarantees, but I'm wondering if that is a possibility.

Zero. Absolutely zero. The junior 175 pilot is in ORD with 21 months of seniority. You won’t be able to hold DFW 175 until you’ve been here around two years.

When I was hired, people who had accepted the DEC bonus were allowed to bid for a new hire status based on class seniority, including FO seats, the NCE seats were only "offered."

DEC 175 DFW will not happen under any circumstances, that is the most senior seat in the company.

The 175 seats are FO. If you qualify for a direct entry captain, your paperwork may read differently, but even if they ALLOW you to bid for the 175, as an FO, you will be displaced to Captain immediately, at the latest the next bid, which have been every three month, so before you finish training. As the most junior Captain in the company, you will be stuck with a CRJ, MAYBE a 145, in ORD because that is
all the most junior captain in the company can hold.

Yeah holding Dallas, as others have said will take time. It’s our most senior base.

This is actually a pretty good situation for new hires.
Assuming you're a cadet/lucky with 0 qualifying 121/91k/135 time, and get DFL out of training. 21 months later you might upgrade straight to DCL.

Wouldn't count on getting the 175 on upgrade after being on it as an FO. With the huge night/day difference between the rates that FOs on the 175 vs. the obsolete fleets are getting hours now choice upgrade slots are likely to be more contested, especially uncertain for people on the normal ~18 mo. upgrade path. I'm 12 months behind with essentially no flying, and so is everyone else hired around the same time into the WSCOD. The situation seems even worse on the CRJ side but may actually balance out w/ more flying on rsv.

Yeah, I was making the assumption that you couldn't fly 1000 hours in 21 months, even on the 175.

It would be easy in ORD tbh

Ok that's good info. How are the 175 lines in DFW?

Yeah but if an FO is blasting out 1000 hours in 21 months, everything is going perfect for them and they are not too worried about what aircraft they upgrade on.

Heck, you can lose 3 weeks with your vacation bidding if done correctly, would assume people do get sick occasionally, that can be stretched. Upper seniority reserve barely flies you at all on it, so you can also leverage that as a boost.

If you really want the seat you can get to it, but I agree if you are right seat in ORD on it, you will be ready for upgrade before your seniority is unless you have some stalling tactics in place. Although, at least in ORD, you dont need much more than 21 months seniority to hold it.

I have learned over the past few years that it's very hard to determine what people are going to do. We went from complaining about upgrades being too long to too short.

I would agree with you if our 175 fleet numbers were to stay the same. However with a growing fleet the scenario may change. Also, the CRJ is leaving which will cause another displacement eventually and shake up this situation even more (my guess is that this would not favor the fast to 1000 guys). The key is all about timing and seniority and the future is full of incalculable situations. My suggestion is just cross your fingers and hope for the best and make as much money as you can.

1350 people hired and still here over last 2 years. That's what spurred the quick movement. We'll see if that continues. The experience for new hires will be different now vs a year or 2 ago.

I think it will be better now vs a year ago but not as good as two years ago.

It still will depend on which aircraft and what you think “better” is.

Rise in relative seniority is what I was referring to.

I think the 175 side is positioned for even faster movement w/ the blistering pace of fleet growth. I doubt if the 145 situation gets much better. The CRJ op might finally get the mercy killing it so desperately needs.

That’s not how it works any more. They were previously doing it that way to try to find loopholes in the CBA, but following the Standing Vacancy LOA DEC pilots are immediately assigned/displaced into a status which has an open standing vacancy and do not bid for FO statuses.

Excelsior.

I am DEC in training and attempted to put in 3P for MIA but it will only let me do it as an FO not CA. is there someone to contact about this?

Congrats- they are seat locking DECs now.

Doesn't matter until there is a vacancy bid. However it should be 3p/MIA/CA/EMJ/D Make sure there is that D for Domestic.

Or there may be a restriction on bidding built into DECS, while in initial training. Once a vacancy is posted there is a mask you fill out and email to the person who runs the bids, but again you have to wait until there is vacancy.

It gives me +Invalid Seat+ when I try to do that, FOs that are upgrading in my class are able to put in their base bids for 3D and 3P for CA slots. We were also told to put in out requests while in training and we could possibly get our request before finishing IOE.

Im not sure if Direct Entry Captains are seat locked but I am on the equipment I want & would like to be at Miami as soon as possible.

Even with a seat lock it should allow you to do it. You may be entering it in the wrong order. Either way you won't get awarded anything until a vacancy is announced. At that point I'd try again and if it doesn't work email a union rep.

You can’t do it until you are qualified on the equipment. If you are still in training when the next bid comes out email Phil Hebb for a paper bid sheet.

You can’t do it until you are qualified on the equipment. If you are still in training when the next bid comes out email Phil Hebb for a paper bid sheet.

Perfect thank you!

I figured it out, Direct Entry Captains do not exist in the world of DECS.
Direct entry CA cannot bid anything as a CA until rated on equipment. Paper bid is possible through correct channels and only if a bid is open prior to finishing training.

What would it take for a DEC to get to DFW now (even on reserve)? 12 months in the 145 in LGA or ORD? or in any aircraft?

Be careful
 

Coming here as a DEC is an extremely bad decision unless you live in your domicile. Envoy by far has the worst QOL I have ever seen and that includes when I worked at 135 gigs. They are straight abusive to DECS.