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Originally Posted by FlyPurdue
(Post 2812871)
Without negotiating in public, there is a difference between a concession, and a concessionary contract. If the pay raise increases each pilots cost by X amount, and a concession cost each pilot <X, then that still means the gain has increased the value of the contract, and should be voted on by the pilot group. I very well may still vote that down, but it is not a ‘net concession.’
We need to remember that our entire contract (beyond pay rates) has a net cost per pilot, and we absolutely should demand that the net cost be increased with the PSA rates, how much should be up to the pilot group. |
Originally Posted by mketch11
(Post 2812907)
So when the Union email says “under no circumstances are concessions to be discussed. Any indication that the company expects the pilots to "pay" for similar improvements will be a non-starter,” we should reinterpret that as concessions are ok as long as they are not “net concessions”?
Once again, I don’t want to negotiate in public, but I hope all of us have calculated what our personal NPV and cash flow would look like from a raise matching PSA (or ENDV) given today verses in 3,6, or even 12 months from now, and then what it has to be to break even. I know that AAG has done that same calculation. |
Minimum 20% raise across the board, no concession whether positive or negative. You want consider concessions,wait till you're at aa, give up all you want then. But here NO CONCESSIONS OF ANY KIND. Negotiate that.
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 2812986)
Minimum 20% raise across the board, no concession whether positive or negative. You want consider concessions,wait till you're at aa, give up all you want then. But here NO CONCESSIONS OF ANY KIND. Negotiate that.
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The main point that people are missing is THERE SHOULD BE NO NEGOTIATING GOING ON. THE COMOANY JUST NEEDS TO COME WITH PSA RATES, THE UNION AGRESS AND SIGNS THE DOTTED LINE.
Why are we even thinking about negotiating anything, when PSA didn't? It isn't our job to make envoy competitive, that is up to management. There should be no negotiating these pay raises. They need pilots to fly their planes....this is the price they have to pay. Management doesn't go negotiate the price of fuel they need to fly their planes, they should be able to negotiate the price they NOW need to pay pilots. |
Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 2812896)
Boy, AAG has done a crafty number on us. Instead of asking for Endeavor rates, everyone wants PSA rates.
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I want back pay!
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Has the union put any more effort into ending bonuses? They are a big reason pay has stagnated this long.
Also agree with the sentiment of others, the contract is not open for negotiations and there is no reason to discuss concessions. This is a chance for Envoy to raise very low wages in order to maintain steady hiring, the union should not be giving up anything. Any pay increase should be industry leading at the time of signing. |
I am with you, we want minimum AA Group 1 pay rates across the board, nothing less, also NO CONCESSIOS of any type.
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PSA just raised their cadet assistance payment again..
$25,500 bonus if you're a cadet. Edit: That's $75,500 first year pay for cadets. Our should match/beat that. NO BONUSES. |
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