Envoy vs. PSA | Pay Rate Comparison
 

While our negotiating committee is out busy flying the system because we are short-staffed on captains, I just wanted to post this "public service announcement" (:rolleyes:) that PSA pilots are earning more than us. You know, the ones that have historically undercut repeatedly?

Anyway, this doesn't account for Envoy pay banding, SAP, work rules, etc. that would also make Envoy a less desirable place to work, but you get the idea:

https://i.imgur.com/sDK1Kqc.png

https://i.imgur.com/eSW0LXf.png

#FUPM
#MEGA

The 175 CA rates might be very misleading to potential new hires. Perhaps just list all at the same rate. Ex., year 4 CA on the E145/175/CRJ is equal to $72 and not $76, making the difference between ENVOY and PSA look as bad as it truly is.



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Yeah, that really needs to be corrected. What equipment you're on has nothing to do with pay here. Anyone hired today will be on the what's shown above as the 145 rates for several years. What's shown as the 175 pay is just a higher banded pay that is seniority based. I'm not sure where the crossover point to the higher rate would be for a new hire today but it won't be for several years.

Wow Pay sucks at Envoy!

I’m an E175 CA and high 700’s seniority # on my 4th year of pay and I’m still not in the higher pay band. (I’m paid as an e145 CA still). So when I see the rates listed for e175 CA posted, it comes off as grossly misleading. I know this lower pay banding must be misleading to others because I’ve had conversations with FO’s here that had no idea that they’d receive the e145 rate once they upgraded on the e175, and also because of the conversations I’ve had with peers at other regionals who were also completely baffled by it. My suggestion is that only the lower e145 rate should ever be posted/mentioned as that is the rate that all will be receiving until perhaps the year they flow. The currently posted e175 rates are not applicable, as you won’t see those for the large majority of your time as an Envoy CA, unless you choose to become a lifer, and even then you won’t see those rates for years and years as a CA here.


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These should show envoy vs endeavor rates instead of psa

I also agree with this but the incorrect Envoy rates needs to be corrected.

I said this when it was being negotiated. Actually suggested eliminating reference to aircraft types and using seniority based “group 1-3.” That ended up being called pay bands A, B & C.
It’s strictly a measure of seniority. It saves training cycles since you don’t need to go fly the bigger plane to make more money. The company is paying the same end result in salary either way. The only way the aircraft figure into it is the more E175’s, the more people in the higher pay band, and the lower the seniority required to get it. As 145’s go away and are replaced by 175’s more and more CA’s should go to the higher rate.
Knowing Envoy management, I’d bet there are at least a few dozen who should already be on 175 pay but the company is just waiting for somebody to notice and do the math.

I’m well aware of what it is. The point I’m making is that a potential new hire will not see the explanation of pay-banding next to the posted Envoy pilot pay rates on forums like APC. Therefore, it is misleading at best. Only the small RJ rates should be posted.


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You don’t say.

People are getting to be super ornery at work about the pay situation and I don't blame them.

Oh, and it is not that Envoy is short staffed with captains... it is that Envoy schedules are so inefficient that many captains are only working a couple of hours each day. Gotta keep that monthly pay close to 72 hours.

People are MAD!

Just to give everyone an idea of when you’ll make pay band C, I just hit the higher pay band and I’m at 6 years, 1 month on property. Roughly 10-12 months out from flow at this point depending on if AA slows down classes this fall.


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Just to make sure those not at Envoy that have bothered to read this far down understand the language, pay band C is the pay referenced in the OP as 175 pay. Pay at Envoy is NOT dependent on equipment in any way.

Please, SOMEONE edit that post!!!

NO joke... It should be categorized as:

"most CAs" get paid less

and

"a few CAs" get paid a LITTLE more.

The higher pay band shouldn't ever be listed IMO. No one sees it until just before they flow and it should not factor into a new hire's decision to come here. All it does is create confusion. Hell, we have guys on property that don't even understand it.

That’s all part of the Envoy smoke and mirror show.

Payyyyyy
 

What the heck is going on with these negotiations? You would think they are negotiating the new China trade deal...Jesus

Remember: SkyWest negotiated higher pay and better work rules ... and they don't have a union. :rolleyes:

That took them a little while to negotiate too. They caved when they weren’t bringing in a lot of people through the door.


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It all comes down to recruitment. About 9 guys showed up today for interviews.

Wow. That was more than were in my interview class.


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It's gotta be that 5.5 year flow ad.

Each month they can drag out the negotiation represents millions in savings.

I have to admit, that’s the first thing I thought of when I read the email that said the company didn’t grant the negotiating committee leave from work the last week of May due to staffing.

They’ve been ramping up the cadet program continuously. Recently added UND.

RF 100 / FUPM / MQ / ALPA
Rmks // Need time to talk to you guys about our S#!t pay rates and rules.
DONE

<reply> Your request has been denied due to staffing. Now quit sending requests and go fly your @s! Off for substandard rates.
ENY mgmt.

F.U.P.M!!!!!! NOW!

Awesome!!

Filler

Why does APC allow blatant lies on the envoy page?

"Envoy Air now offers industry leading pay, placing Envoy among the top regional airlines in pilot compensation"

This is objectively false. Let's not even start on the 5.5 year flow. Do the admins just allow whatever the company wants up there? How about some integrity from the site.

It appears UND got downgraded actually


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Have you tried editing the page? I used to send in edits, but haven't tried in a while.

Should have the 175 rates removed too. You will fly the 175 for 145 rates.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t get anything until August/September. Yes, we don’t want to rush it and get something sh*** but let’s be honest, good times are always right around the corner at the place. This should have been all figured out weeks ago.

Nothing is happening anytime soon. All management cares about is getting the pilots they need in class. So long as they are getting pilots in class, no raises. And since all new hires can hear is flow and 175, that's what's going to happen for a while.

And if we have to wait this out until the classes are drying up and management is desperate, then we should accept nothing less than Endeavor rates PLUS something. None of this PSA crap.

This is pretty much what I emailed ALPA, it will take some time for sure ..above post sounds too optimistic

Ignorance is bliss

Recruiting/school house is boasting the pay raises will come in 2 weeks. :D

FUPM

They lie about flow, why shouldn’t they lie about that, too?

Anything to keep them coming in. And it keeps working. Just look at the people who think “the pay will come around” in other threads.

I (and many other pragmatists) have said it since about the time Endeavor got raises. As long as people are coming in MANAGEMENT HAS NO REASON TO GIVE RAISES!

There are enough uninformed signing up for the programs that Envoy has that they have a good pipeline. Especially with cadets that live at home with Momma that will fly the SNJ for nothing.

FUPM

Prob second week in June maybe third.