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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)
-   -   Company reneged on pay package (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/122386-company-reneged-pay-package.html)

FlyPurdue 06-20-2019 06:18 AM
Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 2840015)
We have, national wont go for it.
I have been saying this for a while. I don’t understand the ramifications of ‘national’ not going for it, but I want my dues to go to a big 4 consultancy. From day 1, they will have the credibility to tell management they are full of it. I want some MBA working 15 hour days pricing out every component of our contract.

Because that’s exactly what management does, and I want to fight fire with fire.

LowerLoon185 06-20-2019 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by driver61 (Post 2840012)
. It always amazes me that pilot groups are dealing with multi billion dollar corporations that hire the best lawyers money can buy and we show up with 3-4 pilots that one or two may have had a quasi law degree that took a week course at Alpa national. .
Spot on. Very smart kids, and i mean valedictorian of law school smart kids get hired by these major law firms. They then work 15 years straight doing this type of work 80 hours a week. Get a team of those types, led by a lead counsel with 30 years of experience; that's what management is hiring. A team of lawyers with a combined 100 years of labor law experience charging 500 to 1000 an hour. They also have professional negotiation strategy consultants that charge 750/hr. I know, because I've hired them.

Sorry, but as well intentioned as we are...that's a knife to a gunfight. I mentioned before, layer on the fact that the pilot group is not negotiating with the real decision makers, very tough road and almost no leverage.

Cyio 06-20-2019 06:59 AM
Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 2840015)
We have, national wont go for it.
Not only national but most of the MEC don’t want it either.

uavking 06-20-2019 07:59 AM
Check your HI6 because RW has a communique up on the company flight page.

Cool. FUPM.

FUPMEagle 06-20-2019 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by uavking (Post 2840121)
Check your HI6 because RW has a communique up on the company flight page.

Cool. FUPM.
Lies as usual

Erich518 06-20-2019 08:13 AM
Originally Posted by LowerLoon185 (Post 2840063)
Spot on. Very smart kids, and i mean valedictorian of law school smart kids get hired by these major law firms. They then work 15 years straight doing this type of work 80 hours a week. Get a team of those types, led by a lead counsel with 30 years of experience; that's what management is hiring. A team of lawyers with a combined 100 years of labor law experience charging 500 to 1000 an hour. They also have professional negotiation strategy consultants that charge 750/hr. I know, because I've hired them.

Sorry, but as well intentioned as we are...that's a knife to a gunfight. I mentioned before, layer on the fact that the pilot group is not negotiating with the real decision makers, very tough road and almost no leverage.
You’re vastly overestimate the resources the company spares on these current type of negotiations.

NoValueAviator 06-20-2019 09:01 AM
They wanna give bonuses, lol. Scum.

Edit: forgot and negotiated in public

Cujo665 06-20-2019 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by OldBiff (Post 2839868)
Right, a good attorney would review the document, identify the weak points, make the company agree to defined terms. It’s literally what you pay an attorney to do with a contract. You’re weirdly proving my point.
Talk to me after you’ve gone through the process a few times. I thought as you do until actually doing it.

Cujo665 06-20-2019 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by Iowa Farm Boy (Post 2839962)
As I recall filing the Flow Through Grievance and thus 824 settlement were Wayne's idea. He's not as dumb as you think.

I benefited from that, and in fact all EGL/ ENY pilots have, since it's been expanded. Having rock solid language IS imperative, but AAG has a large room full of lawyers (other half is accountants:)) who will spend the term of the contract looking to exploit anything and everyone. Three pilot negotiators and two ALPA lawyers don't have that luxury.
They’ll fight even when the language is clear. They’ll argue and take their chances they can hoodwink an arbitrator; or that the arbitrator has ruled against them so often that if he doesn’t throw them a bone they’ll strike him from future arbitration’s. It’s a crappy system.

Cujo665 06-20-2019 09:50 AM
Originally Posted by driver61 (Post 2840012)
. So why don’t you ask and fight for having a professional labor get hired and do the negotiating for Envoy. It always amazes me that pilot groups are dealing with multi billion dollar corporations that hire the best lawyers money can buy and we show up with 3-4 pilots that one or two may have had a quasi law degree that took a week course at Alpa national. Demand an outside labor law firm represent you that is paid by the envoy union and not Alpa national.
Add that none of the union volunteers will fight too hard or push too hard or **** off the company too much because you get targeted, harassed, fired repeatedly... and then you won’t flow.
The record was a rep getting fired seven times. This company fires people knowing they’ll get their jobs back. It’s a punishment and to get you out of their hair for a while.


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