You're not wrong but what happens when the flow stops, we're stuck at that. Also some lifers have been here since the 80s, more than 7 years.

And most of them thought they’d be at AA in 5 years just like today’s NHs.

If the company didn’t think there was a chance we could have 12 year CAs again, they’d happily give those imaginary pilots a raise. The fact that they won’t is telling.

No harm, no foul. We all have to look in the mirror from time to time. Stuff like this comes from frustration. You wouldn't have so much passion about it if you hadn't poured so much into it.

I'm late to this issue, and not an Envoy Employee...but what keeps most folks at Envoy after say 5-6 years? I know it's obviously "the flow"....but what makes a person think they "have to" wait for the flow? Most there seem motivated, well trained, skilled, etc. I can see the guy without a degree hanging on, or something that would keep them otherwise less competitive...but I wouldn't think that's most people.

I don’t have any factual statistics, but only a very few captains I flew with early on had active, recently updated apps anywhere. I think a number do not have bachelors degrees. I think a larger group of the newer, FOs that are older have degrees and also less time so are more motivated to move on. Conversely, I think a lot of these young cadets that don’t have a degree would rather spend four extra years at Envoy INSTEAD of college and see the flow as a means to an ends.

And yes, I know we do get some of the UND and ERAU grads that are cadets.

Worth remembering that the flow is a management tool. They get a boost in hiring and retention. The company offers this for their benefit alone. The fact that we might benefit isn't really their concern. If big hiring numbers and increased retention negate the need to raise wages and improve work rules for the pilots, then the tool was successful.

The point went right over your head, which is that come Jan 1 when the additional raise from the last Republic COA kicks in, some one with just 3 years seniority at Republic will make more then anybody at Envoy. Plus most of those Republic CAs will move on too by 7 years.

What I am saying is that even with the additional benefit of flow, you guys are still getting hosed by management.

As we said long ago, as the shortage worsens, the flow will be of less and less value.

We get it bro. Compass is the bee’s knees and flow sucks. How bout this...if you went to Compass, be happy with it or leave. If you went to Envoy, be happy with it or leave. These arguments of my regional is better than your regional because of XYZ are a joke. They’re all regionals when it’s all said and done with.

Will send some of you to work for other “regionals” for one week and you’ll be coming back to Envoy begging for your position back

Care to elaborate on why? What does Envoy have that others don’t that would make someone “beg” to come back?