In my nearly 2 years doing IOE I never had a unsat FO or recommended more hours. It did happen but it wasn’t very common. I had FOs who had about 35+ hours but that was mostly due to planners giving more hours because parts of their trips cancelled. I’ve since flowed not long ago but this was my experience.

That's true, if your ioe schedule takes you over 30 it's not a problem but you have to pass line check at the end of your trip.

The only reason I came here was the DFW base. Not about that commuting stuff.

That's unfortunate Envoy chooses to use that terminology. So they must consider it a failed training event that will go on the PIRA if they are calling it a fail?

Not unfortunate because that's not how it works.

Everything goes on your PRIA. Every. Single. Thing. Not just failures. If you get your line check at 25 hours (hardly ever happens because scheduling just doesn't work that way), it's on your PRIA.
If it takes 100 hours, it's on your PRIA.
If you get fired because you can't get your act together, it's on your PRIA, it's just an incomplete IOE with no line check administered.

Almost all FOs do 2 4-day trips for IOE with a line check at the end. 31-35 hours. Some have hit 40 when they got paired with check airmen who fly the more productive trips.

Is there any record of this in saber/decs? As a Direct entry captain I got sick my last week of IOE, then when the check ride was rescheduled that was also cancelled (something with check airmen) I did a total of 65 hrs in IOE at completion of my check ride. Anything negative that can go on a PRIA that I should be concerned about? I was never notified of any "failure" or "special tracking" I was actually happy that I had a line for whole month.

IDK

I certainly don’t think I’m exceptional by any measure and most of my IOE and checks have been completed when I hit minimum hours. One had an extra leg to it. Most of those in my classes have been the same way.

If you didn’t get a training report stating that you were UNSAT, then nothing negative will be on your PRIA.

Why do people still go to Envoy?
 

To stay in topic, no more pink slip? It’s now a Unsat also. Not much differentiation amongst Unsat’s in your PRIA records. So an Unsat if any sort while still in the training department will now really hurt our PRIA & PRIA employability/training records. A Unsat simulator event must be disclosed as a training failure filling out some apps Mainline/LLC’s. Plus training record reviews by those carriers to verify what was disclosed in your apps as valid. If not disclosed as a failure can leave one unemployed after quitting.

For the NH’s coming for the flow, think about this what happens when UNSAT increases (which no data is published for at Envoy for good reason).

Now things are making sense why so many don’t have their apps out on property! Flow has been transformed from a convenience to necessity for many. A back pocket flow somehow turns into a front pocket need out of fear that apps are no longer competitive for any other mainline/LLC carrier to seriously take a look at you except via AAL flow thru.

Talk about a retention tool if needed by higher level mgmt Rook’s, Bishop’s, and Knight’s (chess pieces if needs be). No bueno come to think of it.

This is 100% the same with any 121/135 air carrier who has to participate in PRIA. This is not just Envoy.

Ok. There has been like 2 new hires on the 175 who has passed IOE at 25 hours in the past 8 months, and that has been because of cancellations. It's been 2 4-day trips with the line check at the end. I did mine at 29 hours, simply because that was the last leg of a 3-day (I did a 4 day and a 3 day trip for IOE). Check airmen don't want to do the line check mid-trip, because they lose the IOE override pay for the rest of the trip otherwise.

Everyone I have seen that only needed 25 hours were a four day and only what ever else was needed of another pairing. Usually it isn’t a matter of the captain losing the IOE line because they had someone else that only needed the rest of the trip to finish as well.

Considering they have to pay an IOE captain extra and displace someone, it costs the company quite a bit to keep someone on IOE that isn’t required.

Definitely not true most I know finished extremely close to 25. Maybe you're just bad

Ok. That hasn't been the case this year at least on the 175 side. Things must have changed.
Last 5 IOEs were done with 28.02, 28.45, 33.53, 36.37 and 39.30 hours (this from both bases). No-one needed extra hours, they just did their line check on the last flight of their second trip. Out of all the new hires I know personally, every single one has been the same, line check on the last leg of the second trip, and an extra turn with a check airman if the line check cancels.

One guy hit 45.41 hours, I think he was given extra time based on his sequences.

Nope, things must have changed. I was scheduled for more but I lost 5 hours to a cancellation. Day 1 the check airman said we'll do your line check on the last leg.

I wouldn't be surprised if the check airmen figured this is a way to make a bit of extra cash. My sample size is around 20 new hires from this year, and none of them did their line check mid-trip.

You can see for yourself how much IOE people are getting, it ain't hard. Lowest I've seen has been just over 28 hours.

I have better things to do than look at how long it takes people to finish ioe

Your line check is the last leg of the last trip your scheduled for ioe. Per trng manual and company policy.

Exactly. I couldn’t imagine obsessing this much over something.

Exactly. And this is usually 30-35 hours, on average.

It took less than 15 seconds and gave me exact numbers so I could back up my post with facts.

Exactly!!!

We'll you're going to ******* on him reguardless so at least he can say he looked up what he's talking about

Eh, I haven't bashed on him in awhile. The last time I really did was in regards to calling us all babies for wanting more money and to get real jobs so we know how good we have it.

Ever since that post though, he has toned down the rhetoric. My point still stands, "I" couldn't imagine being that worried these things like IOE times, life is too short.

To each their own. You can go back to sticking up for them now.

I also finished at 29 hours, first Trip was a 3 day, how is anyone supposed to get 25 hours in 3 days lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Took me 78.8 hours

I'm kinda excited to see the next half-a**** attempt by management to recruit as all the pilot candidates go to Endeavor/Skywest/Frontier this fall. With Delta/United/ULCC/ACMI's going all ahead full, we will be hemorrhaging pilots in epic proportions.

Umm, just like any regional? If you’re goal is to be a regional lifer, then you should be come here. If you want to get your hours and upgrade quick, then this is a good option. The only thing I think is revolutionary is the Frontier flow from Embry riddle but you still need to lay for your own type rating though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pay to play. Probably still a good investment, though. I mean, what’s another $10K on top of the $150K that Daddy paid to get you through Riddle?

Unreal isn’t it. I mean I think it’s like 35k but to your point doesn’t even matter when daddy buys it. However, those that came before us and still are fighting for better wages and QOL I can’t help but think this is a result of that what obviously is a good thing, but I hope the next gen will appreciate what those have done to get us to this point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think these kids are paying more like $300K.

The regionals will cease to exist, no pilots as they are all hired away! Ah, yeah, heard this before. Delta,United, AA will never have a lack of applicants, or Fed EX or UPS. I don’t come on here a lot, but I’ve been through all this crap before. I flowed over 5.5 yrs ago. Like any average dude trying to get out it was tough. Only good thing through all of this was I was never furloughed, I was young enough when I came over, I still had 24yrs to go on the other side till retirement.

I've worked with enough guys to know, that it’s still hard to get on else where. Plenty of former military guys I’ve flown with took 2/3 interviews else where before they were picked up. As a civilian, it’s even harder. So this talk of lifer crap, I’m gonna get out etc, etc, you don’t know. Throw it all at the fan. I tried before I flowed when hiring started again. Years, bazillion hours of PIC a CKA letter and a job fair, and crickets. So you really don’t know. Good luck, I hope this time around it’s different for everyone.

Posts like this terrify me. And it’s not uncommon. People bust their butt and do everything with a clean record but still nothing. What gives?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What gives? The airline industry had 1.5 lost decades. (2001-2014).

Multiple bad events set the tone, and people accepted it as the new normal. We'll find out if that or the 'shortage' holds true.

I think we all like to imagine that merit has a bigger role than it really does because we can control it easily.

Sure, hours and record count, but basically every girl I went to flight school with has gone right seat to right seat (or almost, picked up right after upgrade) to the majors. The biggest difference between any two pilots isn't hours or record, it's softs (including diversity based) or networking.

The people I know that don't have any obvious +++ softs either have a "mentor"/relative in the hiring/management side of the mainline shop or bounced off another outfit, like Alaska, for a year or two first. People deny my experience strenuously sometimes because it offends their sense of equity or something I guess, but I can't be the only one who has noticed this pattern.

This is very much true.

So much you can’t control. I can’t believe the number of people who think as soon as I have “XXX” I’ll be out of here to (insert major airline here). Reality is much different.

yup, the 1 out of 20 pilots are taking 100% of the jobs. That’s why when you see pictures of new hire classes at majors, it’s ALL women in those pictures. Get over yourself dude.

No one is saying that, calm down and take a breath. Generally at major NH classes the biggest demo is ex military, we're talking about the small minority of the NH class that gets hired OTS with no military and outside any kind of flow or preferential interview scheme. In competing for these seats, people with strong softs are extremely dominant.

Lol. Dude, stop with the victim complex. Stop making excuses which are verifiably not true, even off the street hires favor white males. And that’s because the majority of pilots are also white males, it’s a numbers thing. Just stop pretending to be such a victim in life, you’re not one. Take some responsibility.

naw, that’s just your imagination speaking…or your bigotry.

https://i.ibb.co/19CN6wG/8576659-F-F...E7-CC1-DCD.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/nk0Lpg2/1-CAF4583-B...ED8-C749-C.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/Y7QHc7G/3-A4-BED31-...F8-D097061.jpg

Look at it from the other side of the coin, what would news headlines look like if they posted an article every time there was a white male flight deck crew? Would you even see any other news? Hah

also, and this has been stated numerous times, the United program is not saying they are only hiring minorities. You can still interview and get the job, and just because of the sheer numbers of current pilots it will still be white male. But their ground up zero to hero program? That’s what they are discussing, which won’t even be the bulk of their hires. So that’s still less than half of a half. All you have to do is look at current new hire classes at majors and you’ll see who still remains the majority. Look at all the recent attrition at envoy, was it all the women and black pilots? I don’t think so. The fact is, at the end of the day when you go to class at a major the majority of the class will still be white males. So stop playing victim the numbers do not support your claims, but the flight deck is an echo chamber and a great deal of you want to keep playing victim.