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Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 2861264)
I did not see any language regarding that addressed in the new LOAs so the old LOA regarding CA pay at bid award should be in tact.
The company giveth. The company taketh away. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2861339)
Right. I didn’t think it had changed with THIS LOA. But I’d be willing to bet the company will want it back sometime soon.
The company giveth. The company taketh away. Just looked it up. LOA 18-02. Nothing I can see in it regarding an expiration date or a "void if" or a notice of termination or anything. I don't see how they can just pull the carpet on that one without union agreement... perhaps they'll offer a couple more flows? |
Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 2861356)
I'd have to go back and check, but I don't think the company can just take that LOA away, or that provision of the LOA, like they could the bonuses.
Just looked it up. LOA 18-02. Nothing I can see in it regarding an expiration date or a "void if" or a notice of termination or anything. I don't see how they can just pull the carpet on that one without union agreement... perhaps they'll offer a couple more flows? |
Curious, how long do new hires spend on reserve per base and equipment.
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2861380)
I’m thinking more along the lines of “So you want to talk about reserve rules...”
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Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 2861392)
Curious, how long do new hires spend on reserve per base and equipment.
****ty reserve life effects all of us. |
Originally Posted by buddies8
(Post 2861392)
Curious, how long do new hires spend on reserve per base and equipment.
Longest (ignoring the CRJ) is DFW 145, around 18 months. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2861410)
Shortest is DFW 175, 2-3 months.
Longest (ignoring the CRJ) is DFW 145, around 18 months. Of course with the NY changes it will be a complete wild card. And that will filter through the other bases as well. And don’t forget what LAX will do to the mix. Or at least the rumors of it. |
They’ve been promising to work diligently to fix reserve since 2013.
Their promises aren’t worth spit. In 2012 they promised a new fleet of E175’s in exchange for the bankruptcy concessions.... Then in December 2013, three months after taking over as new CEO, Fabregas demanded more concessions for the planes promised in 2012, under threat of being ComairII if we didn’t. |
Originally Posted by GoFast8
(Post 2861254)
Technically it is. It's just a very very small raise.
Using 75 hours/month for a year. Not including per diem. 75hrs x 12 months = 900 hrs/ year Old Pay $38.66 x 900hrs = $34,794 New Pay $50.21 x 900hrs = $45,189 Total Raise Per Year $10,395 Old pay included a $20,000 retention bonus, paid out over 2 years making it $10,000/year of bonus So that's a $395/year raise....making it a whopping $0.43/hour raise (approx) |
Email sent to the Chicago LEC
Chicago Pilots, Over the past several months we have engaged directly with our pilots through numerous phone calls or emails, and through our vast network of P2Ps. Although opinions varied, the overwhelming message [vice chairman] and I received was that any changes to our contract would have to be without concessions, and at a bare minimum equivalent to PSA. As a reminder, Envoy and PSA both have 2 pay bands for their Captains but the respective implementation of them is significantly different (First Officers at Envoy have a single payrate). At Envoy, movement from one Captain pay band to another is based solely on seniority and pay band size is determined by fleet composition. At PSA, their pay rates are blended into one which is based on fleet composition. This creates a problem when simply taking PSA large and small RJ rates and applying them to our Section 3 rates since 60% of our pilots would be paid considerably less than PSA and the remainder paid only slightly more. In short, PSA large and small RJ rates at Envoy would overall cause Envoy pilots to be paid less in aggregate given our present fleet mix. In order to address this gap, additional quality of life or compensation sources were needed. The Agreement in Principle (AIP) signed earlier in June provided what we felt was an appropriate solution to bring equitability between Envoy and PSA. After the company reneged on that agreement, discussions between Envoy management and your Association continued. Finally, after several weeks, the company presented to the Association a proposal that lacked many attributes of the AIP but also contained a Protocol Agreement binding them to any changes made to our CBA. When analyzing the merits of the company's proposal and the feedback our pilots from Chicago provided us, [vice chairman] and I felt that this proposal fell short of what was acceptable. Additionally, we felt that it was important for the pilot group to view the proposal prior to any vote for ratification so we could obtain additional focused feedback. In accordance with an MEC policy which can be waived by a 2/3rds vote of MEC, such agreements are ordinarily posted for 10 days for pilot review prior to ratification. Last Tuesday, a special MEC meeting was held to address the proposal from the company. After a thorough briefing, a motion was made to waive the 10-day posting period. Although both [vice chairman] and I voted against waiving the 10-day posting period due to our belief that the pilots should have a chance to see the proposal and provide additional feedback to their reps, the motion ultimately passed. Finally, the question of accepting the agreement was called and for the reasons described earlier, [vice chairman] and I both voted against the proposal. In summary, we felt it did not meet all the requirements our pilots expected. The final vote was 6-2 in favor of accepting the agreement, and on Wednesday members from Envoy, AAG, and ALPA drafted formal documents and signed the agreement. This is not the outcome we would have preferred. Make no mistake, our pilots will now be compensated more than they would have been before this agreement and these changes do come with no contractual concessions. We are encouraged, however, that management's recognition of the need to improve pilot compensation serves as a starting point for securing additional improvements for our pilots going forward, and we recognize that much work remains. Above all, we sincerely thank the pilots of Chicago for their engagement. We know that there are strong feelings both ways as to this recent agreement and we encourage you to continue to reach out as you have done so far. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2861414)
Once again goes to show how different life is between the fleets.
Of course with the NY changes it will be a complete wild card. And that will filter through the other bases as well. And don’t forget what LAX will do to the mix. Or at least the rumors of it. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2861506)
What NY changes? Is reserve time there going to get shorter?
So yes, likely. |
Originally Posted by dera
(Post 2861509)
Growth in NY.
So yes, likely. |
Originally Posted by AV8R72
(Post 2861511)
32 new hires in last 2 classes going there. Is there any way to guess what the new hires reserve time will be?
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Originally Posted by ENH017
(Post 2861497)
Email sent to the Chicago LEC
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 2861429)
Somebody make a $.43 cent logo or sticker.....
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Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 2861428)
They’ve been promising to work diligently to fix reserve since 2013.
Their promises aren’t worth spit. In 2012 they promised a new fleet of E175’s in exchange for the bankruptcy concessions.... Then in December 2013, three months after taking over as new CEO, Fabregas demanded more concessions for the planes promised in 2012, under threat of being ComairII if we didn’t. |
Originally Posted by GoFast8
(Post 2861623)
Here ya go...
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Originally Posted by boiler07
(Post 2861673)
Given the number of people you've asked to help you get your job back, I'm surprised you're so unconcerned with bad-mouthing them. It's gotta be tough trying to toe the line and burn it down from the outside simultaneously.
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Cujo is probably the most bitter person on this board, which is saying a lot. Hasn't worked here for years but is posting on this board every day trying to stir the pilots up to turn against management, the union, and other pilots.
Oh and he was also a much better deal maker and had 50% flow. Just move on already. |
Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2861805)
Exactly. He's a know it all who "thinks" he has friends at AA and Envoy. He's desperately pining to get back to Envoy, even as a brand new hire. He just blows a lot of nonsense out about how great it is at a lowly ACMI. Sorry dude, your worst day at Envoy was better than your best day at your ACMI.
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Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2861805)
Exactly. He's a know it all who "thinks" he has friends at AA and Envoy. He's desperately pining to get back to Envoy, even as a brand new hire. He just blows a lot of nonsense out about how great it is at a lowly ACMI. Sorry dude, your worst day at Envoy was better than your best day at your ACMI.
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Originally Posted by bitwiser
(Post 2861843)
I don't know much about Cujo but I can guarantee there are zero pilots at Omni who would rather be at Envoy. The idea of it is pretty humorous actually.
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Originally Posted by bitwiser
(Post 2861843)
I don't know much about Cujo but I can guarantee there are zero pilots at Omni who would rather be at Envoy. The idea of it is pretty humorous actually.
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 2861924)
Or any other ACMI. I’m certain if any of them wanted to be at Envoy they would have applied and been hired.
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Originally Posted by havick206
(Post 2861936)
With the exception of maybe Atlas.
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Originally Posted by RawHide
(Post 2861204)
over the next 5 years the company will become 100% large RJ having the pay banding will benefit all pilots on property over time
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Originally Posted by BIueSideUp
(Post 2861976)
Yea, right. If the 145s are gone in 5 years I'll drop a deuce right in the middle of the rotunda.
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Don’t get why anyone hates on Cujo. He knows more about this place’s history than anyone else has ever shared here and has insights on the company and the MECs mindsets that are still relevant now, and he clearly wants the best for the pilots. Seems fine to me. You guys probably **** talk the friendly lifers you fly with too. Be a little less DFW.
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Originally Posted by NoValueAviator
(Post 2862185)
Don’t get why anyone hates on Cujo. He knows more about this place’s history than anyone else has ever shared here and has insights on the company and the MECs mindsets that are still relevant now, and he clearly wants the best for the pilots. Seems fine to me. You guys probably **** talk the friendly lifers you fly with too. Be a little less DFW.
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Originally Posted by copycopy
(Post 2862265)
He may know a lot of history, but he has a habit of misrepresenting it. His biases are on full display to those who also know the history. The lack of accuracy is normally what gets him in hot water with some of the other knowledgeable members of the community. That’s not to say that everything he writes on here is without merit, but I urge you to take a lot of his historical rhetoric with a grain of salt.
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Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2860317)
Yes not as confusing as getting paid year 3,4,5 then back to 3 when upgrading.
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Originally Posted by copycopy
(Post 2862265)
He may know a lot of history, but he has a habit of misrepresenting it. His biases are on full display to those who also know the history. The lack of accuracy is normally what gets him in hot water with some of the other knowledgeable members of the community. That’s not to say that everything he writes on here is without merit, but I urge you to take a lot of his historical rhetoric with a grain of salt.
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They dont like people with facts and knowledge of the mec b.s.
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Originally Posted by havick206
(Post 2860402)
That sucks. Really should have gone to a pilot vote with that significant of a change.
My thoughts exactly! Couple others I’ve spoken to have the same perspective. Fear that this LOA would be DOA.... again like the last one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn't the previous LOA (RSV & concessions) was going to to be sent for the pilot group to vote. But negative vibes immediately upon release caused MEC to say nay to company? Am I wrong? For those that remember state the facts if known. |
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
(Post 2862431)
My thoughts exactly! Couple others I’ve spoken to have the same perspective.
Fear that this LOA would be DOA.... again like the last one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn't the previous LOA (RSV & concessions) was going to to be sent for the pilot group to vote. But negative vibes immediately upon release caused MEC to say nay to company? Am I wrong? For those that remember state the facts if known. |
Originally Posted by SilentLurker
(Post 2862431)
My thoughts exactly! Couple others I’ve spoken to have the same perspective.
Fear that this LOA would be DOA.... again like the last one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn't the previous LOA (RSV & concessions) was going to to be sent for the pilot group to vote. But negative vibes immediately upon release caused MEC to say nay to company? Am I wrong? For those that remember state the facts if known. |
Has the union stated why this wasn’t brought to the pilots for a vote? I mean last I checked we didn’t elect dictators that just get to wield their influence unchecked.
Thanks to the ORD Reps for standing their ground even if ultimately it didn’t stop the vote. |
Originally Posted by GoFast8
(Post 2861623)
Here ya go...
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